is this collusion?

    • DONgreat
      DONgreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2011 Posts: 101
      ***** History for hand T5-291061670-28 (TOURNAMENT: "Double or Nothing Turbo", S-5641-103033, buy-in: $22) *****
      Start hand: Wed Nov 28 21:53:24 UTC 2012
      Table: Table #1 [291061670] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 100/200, Chips)
      User: SuperSeanE
      Button: seat 8
      Players in round: 4 (6)
      Seat 2: djb100 (230)
      Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (1060)
      Seat 8: SuperSeanE (1195)
      Seat 9: Valorosul (6515)
      Valorosul posts small blind (100)
      djb100 posts big blind (200)
      ---
      Dealing pocket cards
      Dealing to SuperSeanE: [6h, Ts]
      _U_R_TILTED_ folds
      SuperSeanE folds
      Valorosul folds
      ---
      Summary:
      Main pot: 200 won by djb100 (200)
      Rake taken: $0
      Seat 2: djb100 (330), net: +100
      Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (1060)
      Seat 8: SuperSeanE (1195)
      Seat 9: Valorosul (6415), net: -100
      ***** End of hand T5-291061670-28 *****


      ***** History for hand T5-291061670-32 (TOURNAMENT: "Double or Nothing Turbo", S-5641-103033, buy-in: $22) *****
      Start hand: Wed Nov 28 21:54:54 UTC 2012
      Table: Table #1 [291061670] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 100/200, ante: 20, Chips)
      User: SuperSeanE
      Button: seat 8
      Players in round: 4 (6)
      Seat 2: djb100 (170)
      Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (700)
      Seat 8: SuperSeanE (835)
      Seat 9: Valorosul (7295)
      Valorosul posts ante 20
      djb100 posts ante 20
      _U_R_TILTED_ posts ante 20
      SuperSeanE posts ante 20
      Valorosul posts small blind (100)
      djb100 posts big blind (150) [all in]
      ---
      Dealing pocket cards
      Dealing to SuperSeanE: [Jc, Th]
      _U_R_TILTED_ folds
      SuperSeanE folds
      Valorosul folds
      ---
      Summary:
      Main pot: 280 won by djb100 (280)
      Rake taken: $0
      Seat 2: djb100 (330), net: +160
      Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (680), net: -20
      Seat 8: SuperSeanE (815), net: -20
      Seat 9: Valorosul (7175), net: -120
      ***** End of hand T5-291061670-32 *****

      collusion? should i send emil to betfair asking for a refund as i ended up losing this game
  • 11 replies
    • Ramble
      Ramble
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,421
      It is certainly horrible play, but I don't think 2 hands is proof of collusion...
    • DONgreat
      DONgreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2011 Posts: 101
      this is how the game ended

      ***** History for hand T5-291061670-37 (TOURNAMENT: "Double or Nothing Turbo", S-5641-103033, buy-in: $22) *****
      Start hand: Wed Nov 28 21:57:04 UTC 2012
      Table: Table #1 [291061670] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 200/400, ante: 40, Chips)
      User: SuperSeanE
      Button: seat 9
      Players in round: 4 (6)
      Seat 2: djb100 (1290)
      Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (1380)
      Seat 8: SuperSeanE (190)
      Seat 9: Valorosul (6140)
      djb100 posts ante 40
      _U_R_TILTED_ posts ante 40
      SuperSeanE posts ante 40
      Valorosul posts ante 40
      djb100 posts small blind (200)
      _U_R_TILTED_ posts big blind (400)
      ---
      Dealing pocket cards
      Dealing to SuperSeanE: [9c, Kd]
      SuperSeanE calls 150 [all in]
      Valorosul calls 400
      djb100 folds
      _U_R_TILTED_ checks
      --- Dealing flop [4s, Th, 3s]
      _U_R_TILTED_ checks
      Valorosul checks
      --- Dealing turn [8s]
      _U_R_TILTED_ checks
      Valorosul bets 400
      _U_R_TILTED_ folds
      --- Dealing river [Tc]
      ---
      Summary:
      Main pot: 760 won by Valorosul (760)
      Side pot 1: 550 won by Valorosul (550)
      Rake taken: $0
      Seat 2: djb100 (1050), net: -240
      Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (940), net: -440
      Seat 8: SuperSeanE (0), net: -190, [9c, Kd] (PAIR TEN)
      Seat 9: Valorosul (7010), net: +870, [Ts, 5s] (FLUSH TEN)
      ***** End of hand T5-291061670-37 *****


      so he is willing to call me for 400 with 10 5 but not willing to call the other guy for 100 and 50 chips the 2 times. surely this must be collusion or if not collusion some form of softplay wereby he tries to get me rather than the other guy either way it is against the terms nd conditions of fair play i think.
    • FVM8973
      FVM8973
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.08.2010 Posts: 182
      It 's true, 2 hands are not proof of anything, but this is at least suspicious. You have the right to request the poker room review the HH of this and other tournaments. They must review tournaments pleyed for this people.

      My opinion: I used yo play DoNs and saw many extrange things but nothing like this, this is collusion.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,913
      It is worth asking for a review.
      I've no experience with this, but isn't it common in DoNs for chip leaders to just fold everything?

      In the last hand, he could lose and still be chip leader, so it is no big deal for him to call.

      As to the others, he could just claim that he was on the phone, didn't notice or whatever.

      The room's security staff would need to look over the long term for tournaments where these two played against each other.
    • badgerer
      badgerer
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2010 Posts: 555
      it is almost definitely deliberate in my opinion, but not necessarily collusion.

      maybe he was annoyed at you for whatever reason and just wanted u to bust. were u making life difficult for him raising a lot? or maybe u coolered him or sucked out??

      ego's a hulluva drug.
    • AugustusCaesar
      AugustusCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2008 Posts: 377
      Hello,

      Definitely ask for review !

      To be helpful, this is what I did in 2009 when I had a suspicion, PokerStars investigated, refunded me money and banned those guys (I removed their names). The easiest way to find collusion guys is to check whether they play a lot together (much more often than they would randomly)

      GL!

      -------
      Hello,

      I have contacted you in the matter of collusion of two players (their names in the text below) and I have done some investigation on them on my behalf .. I have downloaded their statistics from SharkScope and found out, that the player ... played a total of 88 SNG and amazingly, 37 of them he played with the guy called ...... .. The Ids of the tournaments are attached to this e-mail

      Please use this data to investigate on them

      Thank you very much

      Now the text of the old e-mail :

      Hello,

      I am a pretty experienced SNG player, and I have a very serious suspicion that 2 of the players I have been at the table at were colluding when 3 handed in push-fold stage .. One of them with more chips was always folding his small blind to the guy with less chips, or they both limped in and the guy with less chips pushed allin on the flop and the other guy folded – I think they were doing what is called chip dumping for a pretty long time there and they are a serious threat to your games ..

      Please Investigate them as I felt very bad sitting at the table being cheated, the player IDs:
      ....
      ....

      Tournament : 209931599 , $6.50 NL HE Turbo SNG 9 handed

      Best regards,
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      Definitely worth a review. Even if it's not the case it is always worth it :)
    • ramadas
      ramadas
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.09.2011 Posts: 462
      I wonder if such collusion practices are possible in live casino?
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,913
      Even easier I'd imagine.
      At least online, they can look back to see how many times two players played the same tournaments, and how many times they behaved this way.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Definitly not enough to prove collusion. Whats more likely is he missclick folded since most don players play like 50 tables so a missclick is far more likely then collusion.
    • abhi147
      abhi147
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2011 Posts: 935
      I have seen quite a few plays like this mainly on the ipoker network
      But cant really be 100% sure

      In this case it looks quite clearly a collusion play