[NL2-NL10] NL 4 AK missed flop on wet board

    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,915
      Party, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players

      Hero (BTN): $4.66 (116.5 bb)
      BB: $4.28 (107 bb)
      CO: $6.08 (152 bb) no relevant stats
      SB: $3.36 (84 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with A K
      CO calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.16, SB calls $0.14, BB calls $0.12, CO calls $0.12

      Flop: ($0.64) 6 4 3 (4 players)
      SB checks, BB checks, CO bets $0.30,
      Hero ???

      On a dry board, like T 6 2 rainbow, I might even 3Bet or at least call.
      But here, I have no hand, and no real draw.

      Too nitty?
      I took into consideration the fact that CO has a 150 bb stack, which in the absence of any other info indicates he is halfways competent
  • 3 replies
    • PhoenixPhreak
      PhoenixPhreak
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2011 Posts: 335
      One thing I noticed is that your PF bet seems too small. I would make it 4x +1x (for the limper).
      And the fact that CO limped probably is stronger evidence that he is weak than his stack size is for proving he is halfway competent.
      The flop donk is a little small for the pot too.

      As played, I would call with my outs for a pair as well as the backdoor flush possibility.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,915
      I used to do 4x + 1 routinely.
      I noticed that in the SH games, the standard was 3x + 1 per.
      And as Yossarian says, "I'd be a fool to be any different".

      Though when it comes to iso-raises, maybe the 4x + 1 per would do a better job.

      On the flop, I thought -- what does he limp?
      small pp obv -- in which case he has a set now, or an overpair.
      Is he going to fold his overpair?

      Another favourite limping hand is Ax sooooted, in which case he has the nut flush draw (if in spades) and my backdoor is worse than useless.

      In the equilab, I assigned him this range:
      88-22,A9s-A2s,KTs-K6s,Q6s+,J6s+,T8s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s+,53s+,42s+,32s,ATo-A5o,K8o+,Q8o+,J8o+,98o,87o,76o,65o,54o,43o,32o

      Preflop, I'm like so:

             Equity     Win     Tie
      CO     35.61%  34.98%   0.64% { 88-22, A9s-A2s, KTs-K6s, Q6s+, J6s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 53s+, 42s+, 32s, ATo-A5o, K8o+, Q8o+, J8o+, 98o, 87o, 76o, 65o, 54o, 43o, 32o }
      BU     64.39%  63.75%   0.64% { AKo }



      On this board, it is now a flip vs that range

      Board: 6:spade: 4:spade: 3:diamond:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      CO     43.29%  41.97%   1.32% { 88-22, A9s-A2s, KTs-K6s, Q6s+, J6s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 53s+, 42s+, 32s, ATo-A5o, K8o+, Q8o+, J8o+, 98o, 87o, 76o, 65o, 54o, 43o, 32o }
      BU     56.71%  55.39%   1.32% { AKo }


      But, OTOH, I'm on the top side, so maybe I should have bet.

      But If I discount the backdoor flush draw -- and I don't usually even count 'em -- then I have 6 outs to TPTK, and not much else.

      And it isn't just who is ahead on the flop that matters...
      If any spade, or any 2 - 8 hits, how do I call the inevitable 2nd barrel?

      I can't wait to see what the coach says.

      This seemed like an easy fold when I played it, then I started 2nd guessing myself, now you've nearly got me convinced I should call or even 3Bet the donk.

      <sigh>
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi,

      PF: 3BB+1 is fine, so is 4BB+1. I prefer larger raises on looser tables, and smaller raises on aggressive tables (putting 5bb in everytime on a table with full of aggro 3betters is going to be a bad idea.)

      Since you are playing low limits, I assume that 4BB+1 is more optimal since everyone is looser and we don't want multiway action.

      F: Simple give up spot, in a 4way pot I'm never pure bluffing, even if it was checked to me i just check it down.