Links to ongoing PLO (Pokerstars) discussion threads

  • 21 replies
    • Ribbo
      Ribbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 6,157
      Thank you for this post, that thread is going to get very interesting very soon. I have my own opinions on the whole thing but I will keep them to myself. :f_biggrin:
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,508
      As a person who has grinded micros for years, I can confirm that the rake is high. But with high rake the rakeback becomes so crucial. And that's when sites and networks with bad micro rakebacks tend to fall off. I have made so many calculations about the rake that I can say it's more complicated than just saying "omg the rake is unbeatable". It is beatable, that is a bullet proof fact. So the guys who say "15bb/100 rake, can you beat it?" are just the ones that have not even played plo or can't beat PLO10 player pool.

      Currently there are so many new players coming to tables, that it is profitable. But when the overall skill level increases (like what's happened with HE) it might come to the point where beating micros will become very hard.

      If you think that 15bb/100 is high, I have paid 40bb/100 rake for long time in PLO10, when that site had 6% rake and full rake in split pots. And still beated it with rakeback. But of course with that rake, most of the profit came from rakeback.

      As it looks like sites are going to minimal rakebacks for microplayers, and overall skill level in plo is increasing, the future is not that bright.
    • Jitroceler
      Jitroceler
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2010 Posts: 217
      Thanks for posting. Every PLO player should care about this.
    • JonikoP
      JonikoP
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 600
      I completely agree with the sentiment in the thread and it's been on my radar for a while. As games get tougher in PLO the rake being double that of NLH could kill the games.

      In some of the live casinos I play at rake in PLO is capped lower than NLH.
    • poger8
      poger8
      Silver
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 207
      Sorry, if not posted in proper thread, but my post also has something about omaha and rake.
      I'm FL player, playing mostly for fun, but in November decided to play some distance enough to get Silver in PokerStars (and Gold here). Result was $160 of rake to PS, and -$35 for me. After such 'cool' result (though compensated by my 'rakeback' - pay in one tourney of $36 - just to cover the loss :) ), I've decided to take a look at PLO, hoping to get some relief at lowest 2cent level. And yes, I read few articles, browse through Hwang first book, and watched couple of videos here at PS. Result - in couple thousand hands - I CANNOT beat PLO2. Even on 2cent random table, there may be 3-5 persons playing better or same as you. Think about it - do you really want to play in the game where, unless receiving really cool and long up-streak, your better chances are to be a rake-machine? You want it, really?
    • ChiTheoK0To
      ChiTheoK0To
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 126
      It's easy to know rake in PLO >> NL
      coz AAXX vs XXXX only 66% fav
      that mean this game more complex

      so I think the rake at PLO only 50% of NL is ok

      I've been registered at poker stars 2 years ago (I ve thought through PokerStrategy, but maybe too long time no play, I lost my connect to our ref)
      Last month my friend share me some $ to try over there, I think traffic is great.
      I'm trying PLO this times. but still think the rake is too high

      at least reduce follow gold-rate
      that mean rake at plo = 60% like NL

      I still think 50% of NL is better coz 4 cards much different then 2 card
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,508
      Originally posted by poger8
      And yes, I read few articles, browse through Hwang first book, and watched couple of videos here at PS. Result - in couple thousand hands - I CANNOT beat PLO2. Even on 2cent random table, there may be 3-5 persons playing better or same as you.
      I would say that learn more. PLO2 is easy to beat, if you know the fundamentals of PLO. Average player there has so many BIG leaks. The most common problem is that people try to play there in the same way they should play in PLO25 or higher. And with that game, it's hard to beat. It's all about adjusting to opponents.

      Rake is higher, but at the moment if you can't beat the micros don't blame the rake. It is beatable on all stakes, you just need to be better than opponents. And that's not too hard. The situation might change in a year or two, or it takes even longer.
    • poger8
      poger8
      Silver
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 207
      >>I would say that learn more

      You misunderstood my intentions. I came to PLO2 for fun and as possible relief from my current downswing. I thought that person with some understanding of poker and basic knowledge of PLO should be way above the crowd there. Instead I often get seats at tables, where all 5 opponents have stacks bigger than my $2 and probably look at me as fresh fast-food. If I need to learn and play hard to (only) get a chance to beat the lowest limit - excuse me!

      But if you still dream to become next Durr or Isildur, losing time and nerves on PLO2 or PLO10 - good luck!
    • troshacha
      troshacha
      Gold
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 268
      PokerStars Steve -

      ... In the meantime, we will be raising the minimum buy-in on PLO tables to 40bb effective early January. ...

      http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/153/high-stakes-pl-omaha/regarding-possible-minimum-buy-changes-pokerstars-plo-standard-cash-tables-1272099/index18.html

      :)
    • troshacha
      troshacha
      Gold
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 268
      PokerStars/2+2-users: April 2013 Meeting
      http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/pokerstars-2-2-users-april-2013-meeting-proposed-1309418/

      If u have any info that u want to share pls wrtite it in the thread. Most of the PLOs voted for Shane Stewart. To cast u vote u acc have to be opened before March 10, 2013.

      Ty for u time!
    • Riverdiver
      Riverdiver
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2012 Posts: 1,126
      That list of winning of players with the most hands at PLO100 looked very depressing to me :s_mad:
    • JonikoP
      JonikoP
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 600
      Here's the separate thread on win rates at PLO 100

      http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/153/high-stakes-pl-omaha/no-money-plo-everyone-raked-1315665/
    • Riverdiver
      Riverdiver
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2012 Posts: 1,126
      Ribbo, would you want to post your winrate and sample @PLO100?
    • Ribbo
      Ribbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 6,157
      No, I don't get involved at things at 2+2 :)
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      I know people who are easily crushing plo100. Of course it'd be awesome if the rake became smaller, but i think the field is soft enough to make profits as is
    • Riverdiver
      Riverdiver
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2012 Posts: 1,126
      Originally posted by Ribbo
      No, I don't get involved at things at 2+2 :)
      What? Overly negative :f_biggrin: ?
    • JonikoP
      JonikoP
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 600
      I'm sure it can be profitable at plo100, the point is that the rake is about double that of NLH.
    • troshacha
      troshacha
      Gold
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 268
      Here is the PokerStars Player Meetings Report - April 2013 Overview by PokerStars Steve - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/pokerstars-player-meetings-report-april-2013-a-1333475/

      Soon the 2p2 reps have to post theyer reports of the meeting. If I am correct there must be a german pokerstrategy player who was at the meeting and maybe he has wrote something on german section of pokerstrategy.

      Ty fo u time :)
    • Ribbo
      Ribbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 6,157
      Thanks for the update, obviously super interested in how this will all play out as everyone else should be as well. If I had known in time I would have put my own name forward to attend the meeting :)
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