[NL20-NL50] NL25 SH - AKs flat in 3bet

    • Lunitis
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 20,136
      MP: 20/17
      16% OR MP
      71% fold vs 3bet
      10k hands

      BU: 18/15/2.6af
      7.1% 3bet; 7.35 ip vs MP
      47% fold vs 4bet
      57% cbet 3bet pot
      29% wtsd
      20% agg% river
      14k hands

      SB: $8.61 (34.4 bb)
      Hero (BB): $58.08 (232.3 bb)
      MP: $26.02 (104.1 bb)
      CO: $19.09 (76.4 bb)
      BTN: $26.67 (106.7 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with A:diamond: K:diamond:
      MP raises to $0.75, CO folds, BTN raises to $2.25, SB folds, Hero calls $2, MP folds

      Flop: ($5.35) K:heart: 9:heart: 8:club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN checks

      Turn: ($5.35) 8:spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $3.75, Hero calls $3.75

      River: ($12.85) 7:club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN checks

      Would you play in a different way?
  • 4 replies
    • DecMate
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,361

      First of all, why didn't you 4B preflop? you have a perfect hand for it, by calling your OOP without initiative your just killing your hand and giving him the pot.

      As played, checking the flop is fine you would expect him to c-bet.

      Turn: LEAD! He checked it, so bet! your missing value from Kx hands, possibly QQJJ1010 10J. you have every reason to bet.

      River: BET - As i said on the turn, your missing value from weaker holdings.
    • BogdanPS
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi Lunitis,

      Preflop: We are playing in a 5 handed game with somewhat aggressive guys.

      As DecMate pointed out we have a great hand for a cold 4-bet here (doesn't have to be big). If our image is at all aggressive I would 4-bet here and be really happy. If he ships we can simply call but we will make a ton of money just from both of them folding and handing us 13.5 BBs.

      As played checking flop to let him bet the Kx is fine.

      Once villain checks flop he rarely has anything so we can bet turn and bet river for value. We may induce a bluff if we check or a thin valuebet but that's only a street at most.
    • Lunitis
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 20,136
      Would you 4bet/call AKo? If he shoves AK/QQ which is the maximum he can shove (i think some can even fold AKo or QQ here) with AKo we only have 39% pot odds, i dont think we have that pot odds.

      Once villain checks flop he rarely has anything so we can bet turn and bet river for value.

      If he rarely have something why should i bet?! Thats exactly why i check, i under represent my hand and give him opportunity to to bluff. If he have Kx or QQ i dont think i can take 2 streets of value anyway, so if he checks i bet the river to take the one street value against those hands.
    • BogdanPS
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      His 3-bet was about 9 BB, our 4-bet should not be larger than 22-23 BB.

      Let's assume 22 BB.

      Now he shoves so we need to call 84.7 BB into a final pot of about 216.9 BB thus we get 39% pot odds.

      Against AK, QQ+ we have 42%. Against KK+ we have only 23%.

      In aggressive games (assuming our image is at least somewhat aggressive) I would expect him to go with AK, QQ+ in which case we need to call.

      If, for whatever reason, you don't think he shoves AK/QQ then we can't call.

      As far as the second part of your question goes what I meant to say is that he doesn't have much that beats us (that would bet out). So for example he doesn't have AA, sets, K9, etc.

      However that does not mean he doesn't have 9T, A9, weak Kx that he doesn't want to bet. These hands can all call at least one bet if not two.

      If you only think you can get one street of value you are better off to get it earlier where more hands can call you (like weaker draws). So you can bet turn and check back river (although I'd bet turn 1/2 and river we can even bet 1/3 if you don't think he can call two streets 1/2).