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[NL20-NL50] NL20 SH JJ 3bet/push ?

    • SPeedFANat1c
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,150
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.20(BB) Replayer
      SB ($21.94)
      Hero ($20.30)
      UTG ($13.46)
      CO ($20.56)
      BTN ($27.67)

      UTG posts $0.20

      Dealt to Hero J:club: J:diamond:

      UTG checks, fold, BTN raises to $0.80, fold, Hero raises to $2.60, fold, BTN raises to $6.40, Hero raises to $20.30 (AI), BTN calls $13.90


      UTG: 41/2 96 hands

      he does not like foldint to 3bets so I wait for the hand to get value, and now got the hand. Sizing is not that low but my 3bets size is not low as well, so he still uses 2.5x 4bet size. Is it ok to stack off or not?
  • 3 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,909
      I think it usually isn't in this specific spot.

      The reason it isn't good to 3bet/5bet is lack of folding equity when you 5bet against a strong 4betting range. QQ+, AK is 2.5%. He 4bets only those hands or close to that judging by stats. Furthemore his sizing is so big he cannot fold to a shove based on pot odds unless he used some terrbile hand like A2o to 4bet this big. I doubt this is the case.

      To 3bet/5bet here you need either him to do one of the following:
      - stack off lighter such as TT+, AK, preferably the occasional 99 and AQs;
      - 4bet/fold often so that your equity of 36% when you get it in against QQ+, AK is enough to be +EV with the times he folds.

      In a great scenario he stacks off light AND 4bet/folds often but he is not such a player.

      This might make you inclined to not 3bet preflop at all. Before you just decide that's the problem with how you played your hand, think about the value you get when BTN just calls your 3bet. I cannot say if it will be enough for you personally since I don't know your abilities in a 3bet pot with a less than premium hand but in general it should still be very +EV. Calling will also be +EV but against non-believers 3betting is excellent as well. It's best to have an idea whether you 3bet/fold or 3bet/5bet before even 3betting.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,150
      thanks, its really nice to read such detailed explanations :) this forum has really improved :) good job :)
    • mbml
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,779
      I think calling preflop could be good. We want to let the UTG fish into the hand.

      I also think your own image is very relevant here. If you are tight, don't expect to gain too much value with JJ. If you are loose and aggro you should expect people to call wider and also 4bet wider.