The famous tilt

    • WillyD
      WillyD
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 242
      Hey,

      I thought about writing this post because I see too much people complaining about bad beats and going into tilt mode way to often, or thinking online poker is a conspiracy (LOL) etc.

      I think that people go on tilt because of 1 main factor.

      Misunderstanding the game:

      People that go on tilt may not understand some very basic stuff.

      For example: some people will tilt/complain each and every time they go all in with the better hand and end up losing.

      The part that they don't understand is that even if they are 80-20 favorites, they will lose the hand 1 time out of 5. There is no way to get away from this. Even Phil Ivey will lose 1 out of 5 times his pocket aces against pocket 10's. This is a fact. Actually, they should be happy to have been in this situation! There is absolutely no point in being angry about the loss because this particular event will (it is impossible that it will win you less money then someone else on a huge sample) make you win a huge amount of money in your career.


      That's all I wanted to share.

      Thank you for reading, and I hope it helped many people with their mindset

      (English isn't my native language, so please understand that there might be some language errors)
  • 14 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,915
      Hi WillyD

      I moved this to the forum where we discuss such things.

      Although you're quite right, this might not be enough for the people who are experiencing tilt.

      When you say, "lose 1 time out of 5", that is in the long run.

      They may lose 20 times in a row, then win 80 times in a row.

      The 20th time their AA gets cracked still isn't going to feel very good.

      Thanks for sharing, and you English seems pretty good to me :)
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      I think a lot of it also comes from not acknowledging what exactly happens when you WIN with AA type hands rather than when you lose. Of course, everyone expects AA to beat QQ etc because ~80% of the time it will happen. So AA to win is the expected outcome.

      As you said, QQ will win ~20% of the time, and most people understand this. The disparity and tilt comes from the non-expected outcome occuring. This is what you say in the first post

      BUT

      What people don't often realize is also when the expected outcome occurs and AA beats the lesser pair QQ or whatever, the QQ hand loses 20% of its equity so in essence this is a suckout. If you win 5 AI pre's with AA vs lesser pairs, this is a whole stack worth of equity suckout which is very significant, but because it is the expected outcome happening 5 times in a row, people think nothing of it.

      :f_biggrin:
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by WillyD
      The part that they don't understand is that even if they are 80-20 favorites, they will lose the hand 1 time out of 5.
      WoW i didn't know that. I thought 80% equity means you lose 2 out of 10 times. So hard to understand.
    • WillyD
      WillyD
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 242
      @metza you're absolutely right, but it all comes down to people having to mutch interest in the short term results.


      @MatejM47 you are a diamond member of course you understand -_- well i hope... I was aiming bad players with this thread, actually the people that won't respond to this because they felt stupid reading it (or just couldn't understand one more time)
    • elliotmack
      elliotmack
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2012 Posts: 51
      Originally posted by MatejM47
      Originally posted by WillyD
      The part that they don't understand is that even if they are 80-20 favorites, they will lose the hand 1 time out of 5.
      WoW i didn't know that. I thought 80% equity means you lose 2 out of 10 times. So hard to understand.

      is this sarcasm because losing 2 out of 10 is the same as 1 in 5????
    • Erevos
      Erevos
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.01.2011 Posts: 129
      Yeah "sarcasm" == mocking the OP...
    • Freebie123
      Freebie123
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2012 Posts: 26
      Yeah for sure... 1 of 5 yesterday in william hill i lost 80euros because of that shoves i guess.. AND ALLWAYS I WAS WITH BETTER HAND ON TURN AND RIVER KEEP COMMING FOR OPPONENTS... so at the end of the day when i lost 80 euros i really started to think that when you ment to loose you will... How good your play... BTW those players who shoved against me had less then 10% winning chances... i gues that was pretty big cooler:] looking for rake back and keep playing forward
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      I believe tilt is something that I'll always have and nothing I do can make it go away forever. However, I learned how to control my emotions a lot better now and because of that I'm less likely to tilt. When you just lost 20 SNGs in a row or you have a player criticizing your moves, you can't help but feel a little bit "off".
    • Jackalof
      Jackalof
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 1,462
      (it is impossible that it will win you less money then someone else on a huge sample)


      How is that impossible? Is it possible to flip a coin two times and get tails two times in a row? If yes, then it's possible to get infinite tails in a row. I hope you understand that :)
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      Originally posted by Jackalof
      (it is impossible that it will win you less money then someone else on a huge sample)


      How is that impossible? Is it possible to flip a coin two times and get tails two times in a row? If yes, then it's possible to get infinite tails in a row. I hope you understand that :)
      Law of large numbers
    • muumionu
      muumionu
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2012 Posts: 816
      Originally posted by Jackalof
      (it is impossible that it will win you less money then someone else on a huge sample)


      How is that impossible? Is it possible to flip a coin two times and get tails two times in a row? If yes, then it's possible to get infinite tails in a row. I hope you understand that :)
      yeah it might not be impossible but the fact that you'll get hit by lighting tomorrow at 16:43 is possibly more likely than getting tail 1 million times a row when flipping coin.
    • WillyD
      WillyD
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2011 Posts: 242
      quote:
      Originally posted by Jackalof
      quote:
      (it is impossible that it will win you less money then someone else on a huge sample)


      How is that impossible? Is it possible to flip a coin two times and get tails two times in a row? If yes, then it's possible to get infinite tails in a row. I hope you understand that


      yeah it might not be impossible but the fact that you'll get hit by lighting tomorrow at 16:43 is possibly more likely than getting tail 1 million times a row when flipping coin.


      +1
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      ban for lightning violence threats
    • zumpar
      zumpar
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by ihufa
      ban for lightning violence threats
      lol


      as for the OP's analysis...

      i think everyone (well, i guess mostly everyone) knows what the odds are...

      of course in the long run ur gonna win 4/5 times, its still somewhat tilting and fucking annoying when it happens to you 10 times in a row and it makes u tilt...

      i guess everyone would be happy to win 4 times and then lose once, or something similiar, but when the outcome just repeats itself numerous times in a row, its fckin tilting.