[NL2-NL10] Sh Nl2, KK mucked

    • Th334
      Th334
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2012 Posts: 971
      Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      CO: $2.74 (137 bb)
      BTN: $1.15 (57.5 bb)
      Hero (SB): $2 (100 bb)
      BB: $1.01 (50.5 bb)
      UTG: $2.16 (108 bb)
      MP: $0.89 (44.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K K
      2 folds, CO calls $0.02, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.10, BB folds, CO calls $0.08

      Flop: ($0.22) A 9 4 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.14, CO calls $0.14

      Turn: ($0.50) 6 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.28, CO calls $0.28

      River: ($1.06) 2 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.50, CO raises to $1.16, Hero folds

      Hi guys,

      I'm not sure about :
      a) turn I bet/fold. How is my bet sizing? It might be too late for protection, so I just was trying to invest less.
      b) river...river is kinda stupid, I didn't know why I betted half the pot. Maybe I was hoping that 9x would call? :f_biggrin: I should have block-betted 30 cents instead and hoped to see the showdown?
      c) as played, fold is good?

      Thanks!
  • 5 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi German,

      As played what value is in a turn bet? I'd ck/call or ck/call, can you see why?

      As played the river is a ck/fold, what do we get value from?
    • Th334
      Th334
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2012 Posts: 971
      Damn, damn, damn! It's so obvious! I even said it myself, but apparently didn't fully understand what I'm saying :)

      Of course, better hands do not fold, weaker hands do not call, we are just isolating ourselves against the stronger hands and pay for their morning coffee.

      If we played ck/call, we might have induced some bluff from weaker hands, and if the story repeats again on the river, most likely we are behind and can fold.

      I hate Hero, he's a fish :f_mad:
    • Th334
      Th334
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2012 Posts: 971
      Bogdan! A million dollar question. Thanks in advance.

      Do we consider FE as plain +EV, and we do not bother that weaker hands might have folded if we didn't hit much either?

      F.e. a c-bet on flop. Most of the time we hit nothing, and our opponent hits nothing either. Still, there is money in the pot, and they belong to the player who convinces the opponent that he did hit the board, right? Of course being the aggressor in position makes the task 5 times easier.

      In other words, when we are considering a c-bet with some trash, we are bluffing anyway, and we are happy even when weaker hands fold (because we cannot tell the difference in hand strength that accurately, and we just don't want to check down to the river and see if our king high is good enough).

      At least in the formula of EV, when our equity is zero (or we assume it's close to zero), all the EV comes from FE.

      I hope it makes any sense :f_biggrin:
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Yes it does make sense.

      In the example you gave us we bet to make better hands to fold but we don't mind if worse hands folds (and obviously they would as well).

      These worse hands still have equity versus us and can potentially bluff us.

      You always set the EV of a fold to 0 and then you look at the other options as plus or minus ev.
    • Th334
      Th334
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2012 Posts: 971
      Yeah, I see. With a semi-bluff being an exception, right? We count on both our FE and showdown equity when we semi-bluff.

      Cheers.