[NL20-NL50] AQo BVB pf AI

    • tomzyb
      tomzyb
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2007 Posts: 623
      888 Poker - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      CO: $59.78
      BTN: $52.30
      Hero (SB): $50.00
      BB: $50.00
      UTG: $23.97

      Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero has Q:club: A:spade:

      fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $5.00, Hero raises to $50.00, BB calls $45.00

      Villain's 3b in blinds is 15%, and he is folding 90% bbvs steal and to SB steal 66%. I 4b AI according to mbml's strategy of jamming 22-77 and AQ (for balance) where we need him to 3b 13,6% if he has 4,7% value range (TT+, AQ+ with which he calls).

      Correct or am i missing sth? (i'm worried bcs of his high fold to steal, and i dont have a stat 3b vs position, which would definitely help..)
  • 5 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Shove 4betting is quite spewy imo and it's not really balanced. Having AQ there is more to not let him have easy snap calls with JTs type hands because you have such an obvious range. When you show AQ, you can pe perceived as having AK, JJ type hands as well, not just 22-77.

      If you have an aggressive dynamic, 4bet/call or if not, call and play postflop. AQ is definitely strong enough vs such a wide range.
    • tomzyb
      tomzyb
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2007 Posts: 623
      Thanks. But now i'm even more confused abt preflop strategy i was mentioning :f_confused: . As far as i understand, EV we'r getting here should be combined from value when he calls us down (abt 33% vs TT+, AQ+) and from FE (abt 68% for 15% 3b and 4.7% value). We risk 97bb to win 13bb. When i get called i loose 31bb. Required FE is therefore 31/(31+13)=70,5%. Ahh, so required 3b% is actually 16% i see (4.7x100/29.5).

      So is showing AQ only option when (if) he starts calling our PP showes ligh (etc with KQ..) - do we only start doing it when we get hard evidence on it? Can i allso get mbml's opinion on this?

      And i dont feel too good playing postflop vs good reg oop :f_mad:
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      It's not -EV to 4bet shove some hands but if you have a plan of doing that you give up a good amount of hands you call vs a 3bet ( just AQ in this case but if you adjust to some changes you will start including more hands that play well with a call) that play well and furthermore, you make yourself sort of easy to play against because your shove range will be quite obvious. The EV you gain will not be huge anyway. Money is made and lost postflop so if you are very unsure of your postflop skills, take the preflop +EV spot but sooner or later you have to take it postflop since people will easily adjust to your preflop 4bet shove range. It will be tough at first but better do it now rather than later imo.

      I just don't think 4bet shoving is a viable long run option. It will be +EV when people aren't quite sure what you are doing and their range is just to weak to call the shove.

      Mbml is travelling through South America now but will link him to this thread to recheck and give his opinion on this 4bet shove. It will probably take him a while to get here though.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi

      U can (and shuld) jam 22-77 cos they play poor postflop. Villains correct adjustment is to widen the PPs he use to 3b (add 99 88 77 TT). Until then if he still has 14%+ range with the same value range u shuld continue jamming them. I cant rmb what assumptions i made though. Did i assume jj+ ak or just tt+aq+ as his value range?

      Now when u have aq thats completely different. I did suggest jamming aj i believe in the video but im hindsight its just better to call even oop and play postflop or just 4b as a bluff as long as the bet isnt too big.

      Aq can flop great tptk hands and u can just play for stacks after.
      I think u can 4b aq for thinner value (provided he does have a wider 5b range). This requires u to have a wide 4b bluff range in the first place.

      With AJo if u dont feel comfortable playing postflop just 4b small and fold. Use it as a bluff.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Our postflop options are to float oop sometimes on low boards w ace high, eoth gutshots , maybe cr bluff sometimes with backdoor flushdraws.

      Abt the math...
      When he folds u win 6.50
      When he calls if u hav 33% equity u put in 48.5 more and get back 0.33 × 100 = 33. U lose 15.5 on avg.

      Let foldequity be x
      6.5x = (1-x)(15.5)
      22x = 15.5
      X = 70%

      This seems right assuming 33%pot equitt w aqo vs 4.7%range.

      But i think u have more than 33% right? Propokertools tells me 34,5