strategy vs weird mss players

    • zumpar
      zumpar
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185
      hey, just wanted to ask you if u can help me out with this...

      i play NL10 speed on Ipoker, and there are these 3 guys who play all the time, and they play kind of weird....

      they always have their standard 30-35bb's and they 3bet very small (to 7bb) all the time, esp from blinds... (with a huge frequency - like 25%)


      lets say u open for 3x, they always 3b from SB/bb to some weird 7bb...

      obv most of the hands you dont really wanna just ship for 30bb's (JJ+AQ+ is okay i guess), small 4bet makes no sense, since it commits you with every single hand

      what do you do in this spot with hands like 22-99(maybe TT), AT-AJ, KQ, KTs, A9s etc? would you just flat most of the time and play flop?

      problem is, they cbet 100% and you dont really have any room to do anything on the flop..


      would you call vs their 3bets 100% of the time with those odds, and play fit/fold postflop?

      thanks
  • 6 replies
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      hey Zumpar!

      Welcome to the annoying world of SSer! (since this is not my blog I removed the f****g :D )

      When you are in late position and they are in the blinds there is not a lot we can do since with 30bb as you very well said we can't 4B bluffs. So we are gonna have to leave with them restealing a lot.

      However there is some things that we can do (or not do) to avoid them making lots of money:

      #1 Don't open to 3bb!!!! This is what they want. Stick to 2bb open so you will loose less when they resteal and they fold.

      #2 Don't call their 3B and play fit or fold!!!!! Since they Cbet 100% of their range and you will miss a lot you are burning money.

      Now what you can do:

      #3 Tighten up a little bit from late position (i.e if you open 60% you can always open just 40% vs them + they prob won't notice (bc they don't pay attention and stick to their brainless strategy) that and will have their 3B ranges vs your overall steal% )

      #4 Define their 3B ranges and their calling range (when you shove over their 3B). From there you will define your shove range. i.e you do the maths and define your shoving range

      #5 If they have more like 50bb rather than 30-35bb you will need to call more as opposed to shove over their 3B and play post flop.

      #6 Don't get too annoyed by them and pay attention and define their ranges

      #7 Trap them whenever you can (see last hand I posted in my blog)

      Hope that helps!
    • zumpar
      zumpar
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185
      yeah, they are freaking annoying, mostly the fact u cant 4b bluff them, which i love doing...

      thanks for the reply, sounds really good, opening to 2bb might just be the best thing to do :)
    • Lefty85
      Lefty85
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 147
      You can still 4b bluff by shipping random hands like a-x or small PP, you make money by fold equity and still got equity if he calls.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      #1 Dont open to 3x like stated before, thats what they are trying to abuse with their stack size.

      #2 Don't open over 40% on the BU, thats also what they're looking for since you can pretty much never call a 3bet and if your opening 70% or something like that which would be ok for 100bb game you now get owned because you can't just ship random crappy hands on them.

      #3 If their stack is under 50BB and their 3bet is over 13% you can 4bet shove all PP. In the same scenario if their 3bet is over 23% you can ship any AX and KQ. You will have enough equity + fold equity against them with those ranges in those spots.

      #4 Don't 3bet or 4bet QQ+ since they will just fold so often. Just call and then you will get to stack them when they just 4bet J9o and flop a pair since they won't ever be folding a pair in 3bet pot.

      #5 Also do not forget to ajust your 3bet sizings vs them. You don't want to 3bet to like 9bb because they will just ship on you and win 2 extra BB. Just make it 5.5-7.5bb depending if in/out of position and their open sizing. You also don't want to make it to small and give them odds to call either.
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Originally posted by Lefty85
      You can still 4b bluff by shipping random hands like a-x or small PP, you make money by fold equity and still got equity if he calls.
      By 4B bluffing I meant 4B/fold

      ofc we can and should ship some hands as you mentioned but this is not really is 4B bluff since the shove is +EV
    • mkjmkjmkj
      mkjmkjmkj
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 159
      vs a 35 bb stack that 3bets 25% like you said you can 4bet all in with something like 15% of hands or even more if he folds too much