[NL20-NL50] NL50 FR - QQ on MP1

    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
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      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP2: $55.21 (110.4 bb)
      MP3: $50 (100 bb)
      CO: $58.13 (116.3 bb)
      BTN: $85.15 (170.3 bb)
      SB: $77.41 (154.8 bb)
      BB: $51.35 (102.7 bb)
      UTG+2: $51.66 (103.3 bb)
      Hero (MP1): $50 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q Q
      UTG+2 raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $4.50, 6 folds, UTG+2 calls $3

      Flop: ($9.75) 3 6 7 (2 players)
      UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $6.17, UTG+2 calls $6.17

      Turn: ($22.09) 4 (2 players)
      UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $13.98, UTG+2 raises to $40.99, Hero calls $25.35 and is all-in

      River: ($100.75) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results:
      $100.75 pot ($3 rake)
      Final Board: 3 6 7 4 9
      UTG+2 showed 4 4 and won $97.75 ($47.75 net)
      Hero mucked Q Q and lost (-$50 net)

      Stats: VPIP: 15, PFR: 12, 3B: 4, AF: 3,2, Hands: 727

      After the XC on flop I thought of something like TT/JJ or even other PPs that connected with the board.
      Didn't really want to give him any other card other than the turn one, and I was certain he didn't have KK/AA 'cos he 4bets with them.
      Given my club card, I decided to go for Bet/Call on turn anyway.

      Thoughts?
  • 11 replies
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
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      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      Hi,

      Don't 3bet preflop. Are you happy to get it in UTG+2 vs MP? You're toast vs his range of QQ+, AK+.

      As played I think postflop is fine/standard. He should definitly have some other PPs that we can get value from.

      ifs
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
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      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by imfromsweden007
      Hi,

      Don't 3bet preflop. Are you happy to get it in UTG+2 vs MP? You're toast vs his range of QQ+, AK+.

      As played I think postflop is fine/standard. He should definitly have some other PPs that we can get value from.

      ifs
      Mine is a 3Bet/Fold preflop 'cos I know their 4Bet range beats my queens.
      (I obviously do not 4Bet/Fold in case they 3Bet my queens, I usually go for set value there with Call15 rule).
      What do you think?
      It's still better to flat even if they fold quite often to my 3Bet?
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
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      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      Yeah, why not just 3bet A8o instead of queens if youre folding to further action anyway? Its not like theyre going to call OOP super often anyway
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
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      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by imfromsweden007
      Yeah, why not just 3bet A8o instead of queens if youre folding to further action anyway? Its not like theyre going to call OOP super often anyway
      Sarcasm?
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
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      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      No.

      Think about it, you're 3betting and folding to a 4bet. You don't expect people to raise/call much UTG.

      Does it matter what hand we have here? The only way we make money is by making him fold preflop anyway? Why not just use A8o to do this 3bet bluff, and call queens and play a profitable postflop spot with it?
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
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      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by imfromsweden007
      No.

      Think about it, you're 3betting and folding to a 4bet. You don't expect people to raise/call much UTG.

      Does it matter what hand we have here? The only way we make money is by making him fold preflop anyway? Why not just use A8o to do this 3bet bluff, and call queens and play a profitable postflop spot with it?
      Convinced me.
      :D
      I always think about these things but I'm a bit afraid to go outside the basics I learned xP
      I need to study moooooooooooooore!
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
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      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      Thinking outside the box is what will make you a truly great poker player, take you away from the ABC grind at the micros and to crush souls at higher stakes. I really think that thinking outside the box is one of the absolute most important things to improve as a player.
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
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      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      I do strongly believe it too and I want to become a perfectly situational aware player, but I simply don't have the knowledge to do it now, I need to study more so that I have enough knowledge to actually start going around and pwn everyone :D
      Knowledge is POWA
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
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      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      Actually it's not as much knowledge as it just is logic. All this "knowledge" that you want to learn can easily be logically derived. Does it make sense to 3bet QQ here? You don't wanna get it in, you won't get value since he rarely calls. It does not make sense. It's logic, not knowledge. Same goes for almost all other spots in poker.
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
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      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      That is true and I know it, but the point is that you acquire this logic more quickly and most of all more safely by studying than just by thinking.

      It's a bit like saying, sure you can learn all the mathematics that have been discovered until nowadays through logic, but why taking all the time of your life (that wouldn't be enough in this example) when you can learn already what other people discovered in a summarized and clear way.

      :D
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
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      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      Hah, don't agree, almost everything in poker can be easily derived, in math that's certainly not the case :f_frown: I do think you should strive to be able to do it for yourself, it gives the deep and "true" understanding like no knowledge can. But I dno, people are different I guess so whatever suits you best!