probably shouldnt be playing nl1000

    • BeN78
      BeN78
      Platinum
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 11
      hi,

      i dont usually post hands online, but i would like some to get some of your thoughts on this one i played on pokerstars.
      i play live cash and mtts online

      during this session i was up and i think the other players thought of me as a fish which i am on this table, raising too much pre, but i dont think im as bad as they think i am post flop.

      here is the link to the boom replayer (easiest way for me to show you what happened):

      http://www.boomplayer.com/fr/poker-hands/Boom/1520697_87CC93F22D

      so as you can see i folded the river,

      his value range; 66,AA,KK, maybe A6s,6xs and AK im assuming he can flat preflop with these hands

      his bluff range; busted fd or gutters that he floated

      my question is am i being stupid because im playing 5/10 and think that players are capable of anything or is it an easy fold?
  • 27 replies
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      ez call, stfu
    • BeN78
      BeN78
      Platinum
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 11
      ok maybe im a bit oldschool :f_confused: but there are other details i forgot to mention,

      1)i was being 3bet often so he could be flatting AA KK to induce a squeeze,

      2)i wasnt defending against 3bets when i was utg unless i had it

      anyway thank for any non-"ez call stfu" type answers
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,297
      snappppp
    • badgerer
      badgerer
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2010 Posts: 555
      for me its a call, but i dont think a fold is terrible... i'd probably discount a6, if he has a set then so be it.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Small stakes opinion here:

      If you don't bet/call, you should strongly consider check/call. People are aggressive enough to value bet just about any Ax and will bluff some posted draws (they bet Ax usually to balance the draws) so you can at least check/call and get just about the same value imo. Basically, if you don't bet and induce some light raises (thus you call very often) you don't lose any value if you check.

      I don't think non-FH shoves like that for value. If he has 86s what does he expect a call from? Your range can have AA, KK, 76, 77 that play the exact same way. Loads of dynamics around for him to expect value with that. A6s and 76s are obv in his range.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Id snap this. I mean what can he really have? You have to discount AA and KK somewhat since he would 3bet them pre some of the time and there's 2AA and 2KK out since 2 are on the flop and you hold the other 2. There's only 1combo of A6s left given the 2 6's and 2 AA on the flop. I highly doubt he peels your c-bet with 77 on this flop.

      I really don't see how your beat here over 30% of the time which you need to make this call especially when so many draws busted. The only way for you to be beat here often is for him to think your a whale and is going to peel 86s,96s,56s type of hands preflop and figured your calling down with any Ax so he value shoves.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Following the everyone's a genius when looking at the hand from outside view principle :f_biggrin: , he is probably often doing this with Ax and some Kx because he blocks your boat combos and it's quite a big shove for you to call with anything else if HE could actually rep some value hands (he can't in this case imo).
    • Vygantas82
      Vygantas82
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.04.2010 Posts: 361
      If player rises UTG, bets 3 str on board Akxxx, how many thinking oponents (without special reads/hisory) will decide that it is good spot to bluff against you with some busted draw? And how much fold equity you have in that spot?
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by Vygantas82
      If player rises UTG, bets 3 str on board Akxxx, how many thinking oponents (without special reads/hisory) will decide that it is good spot to bluff against you with some busted draw? And how much fold equity you have in that spot?
      Hero can easily be bet/folding Ax type of hands or be barreling a busted draw himself that he always folds so you win against that part of his range as well.
    • Vygantas82
      Vygantas82
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.04.2010 Posts: 361
      standard UTG range don't represent any draws on this type of board
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      JT QJ QT, any FD does
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by Vygantas82
      standard UTG range don't represent any draws on this type of board
      Hero stated that his image was loose/fishy meaning SC and QJ, QT, QJ gutters and stuff are in his perceived range.
    • Vygantas82
      Vygantas82
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.04.2010 Posts: 361
      Hero stated that his image was loose/fishy meaning SC and QJ, QT, QJ gutters and stuff are in his perceived range.


      Yes and i see it as another reason not to bluff against him
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      I'm also calling :)
    • tztonia
      tztonia
      Basic
      Joined: 20.04.2012 Posts: 3
      its absolute fold.
      from his characteristic, i have him with pocket 7s or 67suited.
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      I think this is an interesting spot, few things I would like to point out. I would personally 3x here from utg because our range utg is really tight therefore it's more +EV to put more money into the pot. Although if your range is wide here then it's probably ok idk.

      Anyway posting hands without reads and stats is pretty bad imo cus anyone can say oh its an ez cawl, or ez fold or w/e. Also it's pretty important if he is a good reg/fishreg/fish and the people left to act behind him.

      So then going from there, it's important to know his 3bet % co vs utg, some people have no 3bet range here then that means they can have AA/KK in their range also if btn sqzs a lot then it can be a call also. but I'm guessing for most part people tend to 3bet AA/KK here being deeper. Next thing is it's important to know his call open stat, given it's on stars and at 1knl I think most regs here have like no Ax in their range besides like AQs/AJs/ATs maybe? and stuff like TJs/QJs/QKs. Once again idk if he has that in his range or not because Idk how good he is, personally I would have those all in my 3bet range because we don't make any $ when we flop a top pair and get owned too often.

      Anyway onto the hand, I think river should be a x/c to give him a chance to bluff but as played I think he is repping exactly 66 and in my opinion this spot is super villain dependent and without any reads I just fold since I don't find many people bluffing here since you can have AA/KK so often. I also think jamming KK on the river in his spot is a mistake but I guess most people probably would im not sure. So yea I think he just has 66 here and most people don't get out of line in this spot ever. also if he is good he probably doesn't have TJs/QJs/KQs in his range here unless one of the people left to act is a huge whale.
    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      c/c here is very weak IMO. This definitely should be a bet. I'm definitely calling the river shove, but that's because it's the best or second best hand I can have there. I usually get very tricky when I flop a set on this board, so I'm not betting 3streets with it mostly. I think u can't fold this even u bet all sets for 3 streets, just take a quick look at your betting range there and see how much u have to defend. I think u won't be able to defend enough when u even call with AK, so it should be super profitable spot for him to jam and u should call.
    • ThePirateSword
      ThePirateSword
      Global
      Joined: 08.07.2012 Posts: 541
      easy fold , for me it looks like a trap, and it's screams quads , why he will raise the flop or turn without postflop dinamyc? considering that your utg range has the possibility to triple barrel often on this board texture. ok it's NL1K but still i don't think people bluff that manny rivers , i think that if you call you will win only 5%-10% max, of the time
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      @getdotcom I think x/c here is fine given we would give up with our bluffs here to be balanced here. Also I have no idea what you are talking about this spot being super profitable to jam because this is the first time I have ever seen it, his jam has to work a really high % of the time and I don't think it does. Still think this is a fold.
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