[NL2-NL10] k9 19

    • Dracsharp
      Dracsharp
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2010 Posts: 2,478
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.05(BB) Replayer
      SB ($5.69)
      Hero ($8.44)
      UTG ($4.86)
      CO ($5)
      BTN ($5)

      Dealt to Hero 9:heart: K:diamond:

      fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.15, Hero calls $0.10

      FLOP ($0.30) 3:diamond: A:club: Q:spade:

      SB bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

      TURN ($0.70) 3:diamond: A:club: Q:spade: 5:heart:

      SB checks, Hero checks

      RIVER ($0.70) 3:diamond: A:club: Q:spade: 5:heart: 6:heart:

      SB checks, Hero bets $0.40, SB calls $0.40

      Hero shows 9:heart: K:diamond:
      (Pre 35%, Flop 2.7%, Turn 0.0%)

      SB shows T:club: A:spade:
      (Pre 65%, Flop 97.3%, Turn 100.0%)

      SB wins $1.40



      A very lame attempt trying to abuse his one shot nature and loosey steal. My card choice is questionable and choose sadly sticked with the preflop plan on possibly the one of the worst board for it, i don't see river bet as a mistake it was the plan all along but i was clearly not expecting him to play his tpgk like that. If there is info pointing out i clearly not see it.
  • 6 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hey Dracsharp,

      Preflop: I'd rather 3-bet a hand as this and play more connected (suited) hands especially since we are looking to bluff a fair amount postflop.

      Postflop: As played I really don't like the river bet. We bet all hands that are not pairs and besides him folding a weak 1p type hand what else can he fold (after we checked the turn)?

      I doubt he'd even fold Qx.

      Considering we floated the flop with close to 0 equity why are we checking the turn back? We should bet turn and bet river as well.
    • Dracsharp
      Dracsharp
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2010 Posts: 2,478
      I checked the turn to make sure he is not c/c ing with ax because board supports it perfectly and on river not betting it points to he predicts my action or more likely has nothing and only one barrelled like almost always. Target was his (bluffs) low pairs and pp-s with possible qx fold.

      I didn't 3b pre because i could get easily a more valuable about 20% range for that, not suggesting i would 3bet that wide.

      Don't get your double barrel suggestion he either has almost nothing and folds easily or has decent Ax that might call both. adding another barrel could get rid of his weaker ax and qx, but that cuts his range much less then than the first barrel it might not be profitable at all, also checking turn and seeing a river check gives us a sign that he is more likely holding hands that we want to bluff against, at that time he is more on weak ax and qx that calls only 1 and bluffs but tpgk and better is doubtful.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Dracsharp
      I checked the turn to make sure he is not c/c ing with ax because board supports it perfectly and on river not betting it points to he predicts my action or more likely has nothing and only one barrelled like almost always. Target was his (bluffs) low pairs and pp-s with possible qx fold.

      I didn't 3b pre because i could get easily a more valuable about 20% range for that, not suggesting i would 3bet that wide.

      Don't get your double barrel suggestion he either has almost nothing and folds easily or has decent Ax that might call both. adding another barrel could get rid of his weaker ax and qx, but that cuts his range much less then than the first barrel it might not be profitable at all, also checking turn and seeing a river check gives us a sign that he is more likely holding hands that we want to bluff against, at that time he is more on weak ax and qx that calls only 1 and bluffs but tpgk and better is doubtful.
      I disagree completely with this.

      If the guy is going for pot control, which is what you are implying, he is almost never folding the river unless you overbet or is really scary.

      Second of all we floated with almost nothing, K high. Since he checks turn he is usually going for pot control, giving up or simply slowplaying. By betting turn and river you are throwing his pot control method out the window (it's not pot controlled anymore since he has to call two streets). What do you think his pot control hands do on the turn? Ck/call. What do you think most do on the river? Ck/fold very often unless villain is a calling station.

      Of course I'm not a huge fan of running big bluffs at 5-10nl but we floated with the intention of bluffing and yet we are bluffing the wrong street. Once you check the turn back your hand is weak as well so villain will be much more inclined to call his weak Ax, Qx and maybe lower.

      Switch positions for a second.

      What would you do with a pot controlled hand vs a turn AND river bet?
      And what would you do now versus just a river 1/2 pot bet?
    • Dracsharp
      Dracsharp
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2010 Posts: 2,478
      He doesn't know my intention this was kind of botched up attempt at the first loose one, after calling the flop realistically i would least have qx.

      I did some assumptions about his range and action with it so lets see.

      SB open & cbet flop range because it's perfect for it
      22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s+,54s,A2o+,K8o+,Q8o+,J8o+,T8o+,97o+,86o+,76o,65o

      Turn check least call 46% of the previous one making bluff +ev
      QQ+,55,33,A2s+,KQs,Q9s+,A2o+,KQo,Q8o+

      River check and least call 30% of the previous one making bluff even more +ev
      AA,QQ,55,33,ATs+,ATo+

      As we see you are right but i usually don't bother with folding anything else than 2/3rd pair or worse on micros because it gets unreliable.

      What would you do with a pot controlled hand vs a turn AND river bet?
      fold it

      And what would you do now versus just a river 1/2 pot bet?
      call

      All i am saying is at the turn we bet against his whole range and on river we bet against slowplay/weak holding, while the line i took most likely bets against his weakholding/trash on the river since slowplay is less likely

      Presumed river range after after turn and river check
      KK,JJ-77,22,A9s-A2s,K2s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s+,54s,A9o-A2o,K8o+,Q8o+,J8o+,T8o+,97o+,86o+,76o,65o

      Loosest case he is calling 37 % of that
      A9s-A2s,Q7s+,A9o-A2o,Q8o+

      One other thing we have to include is he might not fold his aces to standard size on this board, so while we target his bluffs half pot going to be enough we might need 2x2/3 to get rid of his aces and even then he might call in if he does we don't have a good bluff situation.
      AA,QQ,55,33,A2s+,A2o+

      I am not a big fan of running bluffs either but if anything they fold their nothing.

      So didn't want to run bluff against his weak holding because i didn't know how far he will take it.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Dracsharp
      He doesn't know my intention this was kind of botched up attempt at the first loose one, after calling the flop realistically i would least have qx.

      I did some assumptions about his range and action with it so lets see.

      SB open & cbet flop range because it's perfect for it
      22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s+,54s,A2o+,K8o+,Q8o+,J8o+,T8o+,97o+,86o+,76o,65o

      Turn check least call 46% of the previous one making bluff +ev
      QQ+,55,33,A2s+,KQs,Q9s+,A2o+,KQo,Q8o+

      River check and least call 30% of the previous one making bluff even more +ev
      AA,QQ,55,33,ATs+,ATo+

      As we see you are right but i usually don't bother with folding anything else than 2/3rd pair or worse on micros because it gets unreliable.

      What would you do with a pot controlled hand vs a turn AND river bet?
      fold it

      And what would you do now versus just a river 1/2 pot bet?
      call

      All i am saying is at the turn we bet against his whole range and on river we bet against slowplay/weak holding, while the line i took most likely bets against his weakholding/trash on the river since slowplay is less likely

      Presumed river range after after turn and river check
      KK,JJ-77,22,A9s-A2s,K2s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s+,54s,A9o-A2o,K8o+,Q8o+,J8o+,T8o+,97o+,86o+,76o,65o

      Loosest case he is calling 37 % of that
      A9s-A2s,Q7s+,A9o-A2o,Q8o+

      One other thing we have to include is he might not fold his aces to standard size on this board, so while we target his bluffs half pot going to be enough we might need 2x2/3 to get rid of his aces and even then he might call in if he does we don't have a good bluff situation.
      AA,QQ,55,33,A2s+,A2o+

      I am not a big fan of running bluffs either but if anything they fold their nothing.

      So didn't want to run bluff against his weak holding because i didn't know how far he will take it.
      One last question to go with your answer (regarding turn vs river bet)

      You are much more likely to sell your story by betting the turn and river and on top of that we have to bet often as a bluff when we float these weak hands, after all that's why we called the flop, to take pots away from him. By checking the turn we reduce the chance that we will take down the pot and thus makes our flop call even worse than it was.
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      I think preflop calling is fine and 3betting is fine. As played just fold flop, you don't have to win every pot to win in this game :)