[NL20-NL50] NL50sh - Not sure what to do here PF

    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Hey,

      I joined this table because the guy on the BTN has a large stack and only plays 1 table. Looks like a fish on a heater.

      So far I have 5 hands on him and he folded to cbet 1/1. This convinced me to 3bet :D

      Can a call ever be good? Or is fold better because we prolly don't have that much FE postflop with check/raises etc?

      Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2040930
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $239.16
      SB: $75.19
      Hero (BB): $50.00
      UTG: $63.86
      MP: $55.99
      CO: $50.75

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with 9 :club: T :club:
      3 folds, BTN raises to $1.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $5, BTN raises to $10.50, 1 fold
  • 13 replies
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      Getting decent odds to call vs what you claim to be a fish. it's ok.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Snap fold.

      You need quite some dynamic to call T9s vs 4bet OOP here. Even his bluffs are better than your hand. Furthermore, a fish is usually passive, why would you assume now that he is aggressive, therefor 4bets light and you can outplay postflop with T9s?
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      We have 5 hands on him so we don't really know if he is passive and only 4bets QQ+ or if he is actually aggro and 4bets a lot. After we call we still have 39.50 left which gives us enough FE postflop. My plan would be to c/jam flops if we flop a fd, straight draw, or if we flop a pair with no A/K on the board. if it comes out TQx, it's a little tricky but I would decide based on his action, if we have any back doors etc. Also the fact that if we win a stack here we get to be way deeper with him is super +EV and if we lose a stack it's not the end of the world.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by serverm07
      We have 5 hands on him so we don't really know if he is passive and only 4bets QQ+ or if he is actually aggro and 4bets a lot. After we call we still have 39.50 left which gives us enough FE postflop. My plan would be to c/jam flops if we flop a fd, straight draw, or if we flop a pair with no A/K on the board. if it comes out TQx, it's a little tricky but I would decide based on his action, if we have any back doors etc. Also the fact that if we win a stack here we get to be way deeper with him is super +EV and if we lose a stack it's not the end of the world.
      I didn't look at stats, I said dynamics. Fish are standardly passive plus when they are aggro our hand is still at an equity disadvantage and we are OOP. We need him to be bluffing to play aggro with draws.. without FE we just screw ourselves putting in money behind at every point.

      If you can show we rarely need him to have a weak range here to profitably stack off a pair and draws, I'll take off my hat for you.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Snap fold.

      You need quite some dynamic to call T9s vs 4bet OOP here. Even his bluffs are better than your hand. Furthermore, a fish is usually passive, why would you assume now that he is aggressive, therefor 4bets light and you can outplay postflop with T9s?
      lol :D . I was thinking about : Call his open, fold vs his open OR 3bet/fold :D
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Snap fold.

      You need quite some dynamic to call T9s vs 4bet OOP here. Even his bluffs are better than your hand. Furthermore, a fish is usually passive, why would you assume now that he is aggressive, therefor 4bets light and you can outplay postflop with T9s?
      lol :D . I was thinking about : Call his open, fold vs his open OR 3bet/fold :D
      Oooooh.. :facepalm:

      I think calling is OK. T9s plays well enough IMO, I wouldn't consider it weak that I need to fold but it's Hero dependant here so to speak. If you think you cannot play it with a call it's definitely a good hand to 3bet. I think you should be able to call it profitably and if you feel you cannot, it's probably something to look into. That said, 3betting can still be higher EV but calling should most definitely be +EV unless you have some important leaks there. :)
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Yeah that's why I prefer 3betting SC's...

      I'm really not sure which boards to check/raise bluff, to float, to fold... I think I make a lot of mistakes in that area and I find it hard to improve
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Yeah that's why I prefer 3betting SC's...

      I'm really not sure which boards to check/raise bluff, to float, to fold... I think I make a lot of mistakes in that area and I find it hard to improve
      76 <<<<< T9s. Bigger cards, higher pairs, more showdown value, less vulnerability for overcards.. just wins more often at showdown. :) Don't put the equal sign between the hands in suited connector category.
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      We have to call 5.5$ in order to get into a 21.50$ pot. We flop a pair 32% of the time, and if we do get called by an overpair we still have 5 outs. We flop a flush draw like 12% of the time, and we don't know if fish will bet/call AK on like 7c2c3x, we have 39.50 left so I think we do have fe and even if he does b/c we have plenty of equity. Also I don't necessarily think that his range is here always JJ+ AK+ or w/e, I think fish tend to play more aggro when they have more money. I just think we are getting good odds to try and hit some draw because it's super +EV to double up here and get deep with him. If he did go bigger like $12 then I agree it's a fold.
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      Also I do agree that I just call here vs 3x fish open instead of 3betting.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      I still don't agree we get the odds, and not because of your calcs, just because you overestimate your FE imo... I could be wrong but NL50 fish are usually quite passive so they have a very strong 4bet range here like AK, JJ+ (which you already disagree with :D ), plus when they have wider than that and have some 'bluffs' we might own ourselves when we flop a pair or a draw because they have better pairs and draws. It's hard to estimate exactly and to even consider calling the 4bet you have to be confident in playing postflop (not this hand specifically, but a wider range). Yes, SPR is favourable but Hero still has to act accordingly and not fold too often, not TILT when he runs into aces and so on.

      Hope to see you posting more around here! :f_thumbsup:
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      fine you win. I just think it's super +EV to double up here if we get lucky.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by serverm07
      fine you win. I just think it's super +EV to double up here if we get lucky.
      Yeah, it is if Hero doesn't tilt/spew if he loses and is capable of playing deep. You obviously have more experienced but the standard NL50 reg actually plays worse when deep even against a fish. They need to study deepstack play quite a bit more to create profit on that possible hugely +EV situation.