[NL2-NL10] NL10 nut flushdraw &OESD on turn

    • brundoo
      brundoo
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2008 Posts: 57
      No Limit Holdem Ring game
      Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
      9 players



      UTG $9.45
      UTG+1 $1.45
      MP1 $7.60
      MP2 $7.10
      MP3 $6.60
      CO Hero $10.35
      BTN $18.10
      SB $9.90
      BB $9.00

      * Pre-Flop ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is CO A :club: J :club:

      5 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, SB raises to $0.50, BB calls $0.40, Hero calls $0.20

      flop(1.50$) 3 players
      3 :spade: 9 :club: 10 :club:

      SB bets $2.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.80

      turn(7.10$) 2 players
      Q :spade:

      SB goes all-in $6.60, Hero calls $6.60



      Is it right to call flop/turn ?????
  • 9 replies
    • gggeorgio
      gggeorgio
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 494
      I think you can throw it away on the flop because your getting brutal immediate odds to call and you're implied aren't that good since a thinking opponent will definitely slow down if one of the draws on board completes

      As played on the turn, your getting just over 2:1 on a call and you have 15 solid outs maybe 18 if an ace is good (I don't think it would necessarily be though since some people like to overbet with 2 pair plus hands)
      46:18 = 2.66:1 so its still a fold even if he only has 1 pair.
    • Tosh5457
      Tosh5457
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 3,062
      On the flop I'd try to get all-in. I'd raise his bet and 4bet if he bets again.

      On the turn it's ok to call since you got odds of 2:1, and pot odds are better than that.
    • gggeorgio
      gggeorgio
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 494
      hi tosh, I agree that a raise is a good option as well on the flop, but on the turn how does he have better than 2:1 pot odds. Was my math wrong??
    • Tosh5457
      Tosh5457
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 3,062
      Originally posted by gggeorgio
      hi tosh, I agree that a raise is a good option as well on the flop, but on the turn how does he have better than 2:1 pot odds. Was my math wrong??
      Yeah, the odds of him hitting an out are 2:1, pot odds are better than 2:1, so it's ok to call.
    • Philipvw
      Philipvw
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2007 Posts: 578
      Fold flop. You're at best flipping. You only beat KJ or A8 and i don't think you have much fold equity with such an overbet. Fold, get your money in in a better spot. He made a bet of twice the pot. If you want to be aggressive you need to hit your cards or be succesfull in letting him fold 2/3s of time. Why do you want to get in such a spot? Raising is wrong i think!

      Call turn. You're commited and have odds to draw. However, it's your fault that you got in this spot and played for a stack on the turn by calling with ace-high. Avoid it!

      PS: please use a hand convertor in the future.
    • Tosh5457
      Tosh5457
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 3,062
      His miniraise preflop and pot overbet may be just a donk move and he could have a bad hand. In case it's a good hand(TT+, AK+), TT has you beat and if he has an AA it's a 60-40 situation. With the others it's just a coinflip. If you got no information on the opponent (if he's maniac, passive, LAG, TAG) you're coinflipping with his most possible range, but he could be doing that with hands we can't imagine, so raise him on the flop to allin. I think a fold is good here too, it's just what you want...

      But since he's on the blinds I say his range is much larger than AK+, TT+, so push and gl.
    • Philipvw
      Philipvw
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2007 Posts: 578
      I reconsidered this problem, and i was wrong. (I think i saw the flop as a backdoor fdraw.)I understand a push on the flop.

      You push:

      and villain bluffs (30% of the time) and folds

      you win 100% of the time ($1.5 in the pot + $2.8 from his bet = $4.3)

      and villain calls (70% of the time), let's say you're only 40% to win when called

      you win 40% of the time ($1.5 in the pot + $2.8 from his bet + $6.6 from his AI call = $10.9)

      you lose 60% of the time ($2.8 to call him + $6.6 to raise him AI=$9.4)

      When he bluffs and folds, you gain .3*1*4.3=$1.29, when he calls .7*(.4*10.9-.6*9.4)=-.896. So total=.394.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Hi brundoo,

      You could fold the flop, since player overbet the pot and he would shove at most turn cards.
      But as you played is also fine. You have very good draw to call his all-in on the turn.
    • brundoo
      brundoo
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2008 Posts: 57
      thanks everyone for very interesting replies.

      just to say that I had ecxellent implied odds on flop since villain had pocket rockets(he is very TAG and mini re-raise said it all) and he was thinking he is unvinsable. turn gave me even better draw so I went for it(every non club card,except Q I would have folded)