Last Chance Saloon: 6max Cash - Week 3 review and NL5!

    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      Hey everyone,

      DISCLAIMER: This is gonna be long........ (Cliffs at the end)

      For what must be the 5th time - Here is yet another blog introduction! For those who aren't familiar with me - I am Gary, a supermoderator here in the EN Community, 28, married, father of one (soon to be two [fingers crossed]. I work full time as a Supermarket assistant manager in the West of Ireland.

      As I've said above - I've had numerous blogs here in the past! Most of them are SNG/MTT related though. This time around I am trying something new.

      I've been inspired by another blog/challenge and I'm now ready to launch myself at No-Limit 6 max Cash poker!!! In the past 95% of my poker has been played on Full Ring tables. I did spend quite a while playing 6 max hyper turbos!

      Poker History

      As mentioned above most of my previous history has been SNG related. When I first joined PS I did however play NL Cash but shortly after SSS was killed away. I had decent results with SSS and it was probably the most successful time I spent at the cash tables.

      After this I've played pretty much every single type of SNG (DoN, Hyper, Turbo, HyperTurbo) My favourite challenge in the past was my Step SNG attempt where I managed to make 2 Step 4s on PokerStars. Unfortunately I played one Step 5 and the other Step 4 I exchanged for a shot at the Sunday Million.

      Options

      When December 2012 began, I had gotten fed up of just opening up SNGs/MTTs as and when I felt like. So I excluded myself from my main accounts and took the time away to formulate a plan going forward.

      In the end I decided to try my hand at Cash again. But right at the very beginning and most importantly at the bottom.

      [B]Why NL 6max?[/B]

      Why not really? Well, to be honest I have grown tired of Full Ring. I've grown tired of being a NIT! I want to explore some hidden depths. I wan't to learn how to play post flop! I'm an action junkie :D

      The Challenge!

      1. One deposit - I deposited $160 and this has to last me the entire year
      2. Start 1 tabling NL2 Zoom
      3. Work my way up the ladder!
      4. Learn how to use a HUD optimally
      5. 3 Buy-in Stop Loss per session


      So that's pretty much that then! Will post some goals in the coming minutes!

      Cliffs:

      - Gary
      - New Challenge
      - No Limit Cash
      - Zoom
      - 6 max
      - Newb
      - Rules
      - Goals to follow


      Let's set the tone with the obligatory uplifting musical ensemble ;)



      Thanks all for reading! Happy New Year :)
  • 232 replies
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      So here are some goals both short term and long term :)

      It is worth pointing out that my scheduling may change a lot mid year with the birth of bay-bay number 2! But for the moment let's remain optimistic and I'll go with what I've already set out!

      Good luck to me :D

      Short Term Goals - January 2013

      [ ] Play 10k hands whilst only 1 tabling in January - be in a position to move up to NL5
      [ ] Stick to the rules set up above
      [ ] Post hands for evaluation
      [ ] Read some strategy articles
      [ ] Watch one relevant video per week


      Long Term Goals - 2013

      [ ] Add more tables to a maximum of four by the end of the year
      [ ] Crush NL2 Zoom and maybe move to iPoker Speed NL5 and earn a FBD
      [ ] Crush NL5 Speed and then move to 24h Poker for Gemstones in June to play NL10
      [ ] Stay there until end of the year and hopefully be playing NL25/50
      [ ] Stay away from MTTs/SNGs and spend ONE year playing ONE game
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      As I'm completely and utterly new to 6max Poker I thought it would be best to get some opinions on a couple of what I thought were intriguing hands.

      First up

      PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

      Button ($5.99)
      SB ($17.18)
      BB ($2)
      UTG ($3.39)
      MP ($1.09)
      HollyMichelle (CO) ($2)

      Preflop: HollyMichelle is CO with 8, 7
      2 folds, HollyMichelle bets $0.06, 2 folds, BB calls $0.04

      Flop: ($0.13) Q, 10, 6 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.02, HollyMichelle calls $0.02

      Turn: ($0.17) 4 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.06, HollyMichelle calls $0.06

      River: ($0.29) 9 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.16, HollyMichelle raises to $0.77, BB raises to $1.86 (All-In), HollyMichelle calls $1.09 (All-In)

      Total pot: $4.01 | Rake: $0.14


      Results below:

      BB had 10, Q (two pair, Queens and tens).
      HollyMichelle had 8, 7 (straight, ten high).
      Outcome: HollyMichelle won $3.87


      Is calling the bet of the flop and turn with a gutshot and then a double gutshot so bad? Is raising 87o in the first place a little on the loose side?

      Discuss.....



      -------------------------------------------------------------------





      Numero 2 is kinda similar. Great flop obviously - but once again is this too loose of a call pre?

      Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

      Button ($2.70)
      SB ($1.91)
      HollyMichelle (BB) ($2.87)
      UTG ($9.44)
      MP ($4.21)
      CO ($2.09)

      Preflop: HollyMichelle is BB with 9, 8
      2 folds, CO bets $0.06, 1 fold, SB calls $0.05, HollyMichelle calls $0.04

      Flop: ($0.18) 10, 6, 7 (3 players)
      SB bets $0.08, HollyMichelle raises $0.23, CO raises $0.63, 1 fold, HollyMichelle raises $0.99, CO raises $1.40 (All-In), HollyMichelle calls $0.81

      Turn: ($4.32) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

      River: ($4.32) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Total pot: $4.32

      Results below:

      HollyMichelle had 9, 8 (straight, Jack high).
      CO had K, K (one pair, Kings).
      Outcome: HollyMichelle won $4.17
    • ThePirateSword
      ThePirateSword
      Global
      Joined: 08.07.2012 Posts: 541
      first hand , i suggest to don't open 87o at NL2 it's way to lose, then the turn call it's close but if you gonna stack off everytime you hit then it's ok.

      second hand, again i don't like the call because what your hope for the flop? you will miss alot and also will hit second pair type of hands out of position witch sucks, i will just fold.
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      The 87o is pretty loose, suited is fine but off seems loose to me. As played I might raise the turn to get him of a Tx, but I guess there's no point in doing that at NL2..

      98o is an ok defend once the sb calls, though I'd still prob fold. I'd raise much bigger on the flop, at least like $0,35-0,40. There are a lot of worse hands that'll call and a lot of scare cards that'll come.

      It's really all about how confident you are post flop, but really at NL2 I think you'll get much better results by just playing tight and waiting for hands, not by playing super loose. Unless ofc you make the nuts every hand.
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Welcome to the zoom/rush/speed 6 max club!! Gonna be following this blog. :f_cool:
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      I like the 87o open raise from co, I'd raise any mid connected cards from co and bu, it's the type of hands you stack fish most often with (after AA, KK). Then again I play 35/30 on NL5 and NL10 speed .. so asking me what's loose will differ from what others say. :f_p: :f_biggrin: :f_cool: Calling the cbet is perfect since the fish gives you not too bad odds. I'd fold on the turn though, you have way too little equity to call with the odds he's giving you.

      On the second hand I like your reraise, there is a lot of 10x trash, fd and other trash that might be going broke on that flop. Although personally I like reraising on the turn better then on the flop. The pot is too small and will scare away a lot of trashy hands. On the turn I'd expect more fish to not be able to let go of their marginal hand.
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Originally posted by HollyMichelle
      So here are some goals both short term and long term :)

      It is worth pointing out that my scheduling may change a lot mid year with the birth of bay-bay number 2! But for the moment let's remain optimistic and I'll go with what I've already set out!

      Good luck to me :D

      Short Term Goals - January 2013

      [ ] Play 10k hands whilst only 1 tabling in January - be in a position to move up to NL5
      [ ] Stick to the rules set up above
      [ ] Post hands for evaluation
      [ ] Read some strategy articles
      [ ] Watch one relevant video per week


      Long Term Goals - 2013

      [ ] Add more tables to a maximum of four by the end of the year
      [ ] Crush NL2 Zoom and maybe move to iPoker Speed NL5 and earn a FBD
      [ ] Crush NL5 Speed and then move to 24h Poker for Gemstones in June to play NL10
      [ ] Stay there until end of the year and hopefully be playing NL25/50
      [ ] Stay away from MTTs/SNGs and spend ONE year playing ONE game
      Starting with only one table is a little too modest .. and boring as hell on NL2. You'll be back in MTTs in no time out of the boredom. I'd start with 2 tables.
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      Morning all and thank you for your input.

      After careful consideration both above hands should really be folded. I misread my SHC and as Alficor rightly pointed out they should be suited connectors otherwise they are a fold.

      Way to make a nonce out of myself in only my 3rd post of the blog :D

      Starting with only one table is a little too modest .. and boring as hell on NL2. You'll be back in MTTs in no time out of the boredom. I'd start with 2 tables.


      I don't think so and I have some reasoning for it. I am completely new to the short hand variant when it comes to cash poker. I had played only a small sample of 6 max hyper turbo SNG for which I broke even at best.

      I'm working off a SHC and at the minute I'm only finding my barings so I need time to make sure I'm playing correctly for the minute. As you can see from above I managed to screw that up already :D Luckily, I got lucky :)
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      So far I have played 767 hands of one tabling zoom over the past couple of days. I had intended to play a lot more last night but I just got so tired that it would have been a huge mistake to play any longer.

      Today, I plan to play 500 hands as I don't have much on. I won't play them altogether, I'll probably do it in 3-4 sessions. I believe short sessions are better for me at least at the beginning so I don't lose any focus and play optimally as much as possible!

      Before I forget here is another hand I wanted an opinion on


      PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

      Button ($0.97)
      SB ($9.23)
      BB ($4.14)
      HollyMichelle (UTG) ($2)
      MP ($0.54)
      CO ($2.43)

      Preflop: HollyMichelle is UTG with Q, Q
      HollyMichelle bets $0.06, MP calls $0.06, CO calls $0.06, 2 folds, BB calls $0.04

      Flop: ($0.25) 4, 8, 6 (4 players)
      BB bets $0.12, HollyMichelle raises to $0.35, 1 fold, CO calls $0.35, 1 fold

      Turn: ($1.07) 10 (2 players)
      HollyMichelle bets $1.59 (All-In), CO calls $1.59

      River: ($4.25) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Total pot: $4.25 | Rake: $0.15

      Results below:

      HollyMichelle had Q, Q (flush, Queen high).
      CO had A, 8 (flush, Ace high).
      Outcome: CO won $4.10



      Time to grind a little, behave!
    • nefarious26
      nefarious26
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 413
      i think its ok to open connecters suited or non at nl2, people dont fold so you get lots of multiway pots and when you do hit big draws and 2pair + hands you will get good action so i think its profitable,

      with premium hands like the QQ i would open like min 5 BBs or even more if they will keep calling, but the sc and small/med pps you can open smaller like x3 or even x2 and when you hit pot or overbet every street for max value

      Yeah its looks exploitable but you wont get exploited by exploitable players if you know what i mean
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      First, I would leave the fancy plays out until you get more confident. Stick to your SHC if you have one, keep it very tight and yes, don't play too many tables. If you can't yet play one table confidently then playing 54 tables will only compound your mistakes 54 times...nice.
      Try not to get into the mindset that;'Oh it's nl2, just do it they will call with a lot worse, blah blah.' I play nl2/nl4 and have done for a long time, there are many terrible players yes, but also some like me and they can see you coming if you do that. :s_evil: Watch out for the ego is the short lesson here.

      Get to know your position on the table and how to use it properly, this is huge at micros where people are [mostly] positionally unaware.

      Take a Morrison amount of notes and don't take a look at the hud for information. Your hud is only there for back up and to get an impression of the type of player you are up against unless you have huge hand histoy database.
      Basically reads about tendancies+accurate notes >stats - all day.

      Have fun and I will be following, but only because it wont be noncy for long. This journey could be one of the more interesting methinks. :D

      Game on! :s_evil:
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      @ nefarious26,

      I guess everyone has something different to say! I think for now though I am going to treat my game as if I'm completely new. I guess I am and I am not if you know what I mean. Going forward I will be expanding my openings drastically but for the moment I'm gonna stay nitty as :)

      @ Mal

      Thank you for the kind words. Yeah I can only take note of what you said and do my best to stick to your advice. I have been pretty good with my SHC over my first 1,000 hands. I don't expect I will get fancy any time soon with my plays.

      My SHC has me playing extremely nitty and with a decent sample I expect to be playing 14/12 at the most. I like nitty for the minute - suits me down to the ground.

      So I guess I can post a 1k hand graph for you all. Obviously 1k is a drop in the ocean but hereth you go.

      I've included all lines for posterity :)

      Let me know if anything strikes you :D




      Half way through my volume goal for the day but I'm going to chill out now for a while and spend some time with the ladies. Hopefully the tables will be a little less nittier come afternoon/evening


      Be good!
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      yeeeeah good to see another blog and another challenge :) im sure you will love 6max cash :D good luck in it!

      and...
      Originally posted by HollyMichelle
      father of one (soon to be two [fingers crossed].
      congrats sir!
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      Cheers Lewis!

      Things are certainly going to get a little hectic around here all going well in June! As long as it's a boy and things get evened up nicely around here :D

      Don't know how I'd cope having two teenage daughters!!!

      ---------------------

      Have pretty much played 2x my daily quota already today. Weather has been shocking, wife has been pretty much drifting in and out of sleep all day and the little run has been behaving so I've found the time.

      At the minute it's about playing hands, getting experience, posting hands for evaluation and getting the basics down so I don't mind overplaying as long as I do it in short snappy sessions.

      I am rolled for NL5 and have been since my deposit but I'm not going near it or adding a second table as I said above until I have the bare minimum of 10k hands and even at that I may even double it.

      I've been keeping the hand evaluators very busy in the past 12 hours but I'm not going to over do this because what will I learn?
    • alenstrat
      alenstrat
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.03.2009 Posts: 821
      Originally posted by HollyMichelle
      I've been keeping the hand evaluators very busy in the past 12 hours but I'm not going to over do this because what will I learn?
      Yeah, don't overevaluate your every move too much, I think overevaluating is as bad as lack of evaluation.
    • Castle93
      Castle93
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2011 Posts: 1,452
      I've grown tired of being a NIT!




      Im so proud :f_love:
    • hendo2000
      hendo2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2012 Posts: 191
      The 87o open front the cutoff is fine imo if you're doing it with fish in the blinds, you can either steal, take down the pot with a cbet if checked to postflop, or flop a monster or draw.

      Pot odds aren't right for the flop call (~12:1 hitting the 9, but ~7:1 to call), but implied odds are there so call looks fine, imo his bet sizing is so small it's virtually a check.

      When he bets the turn you're usually looking at a top pair type hand here, the 4 is a nice card though as you say because it gives you the double gutter. Pot odds are again not in your favour here (~6:1 to hit your 9 or 5, ~3:1 to call), but you have to assess how much you're likely to get from him if you hit, admittedly it's likely you'll get paid off decently as he's going to bet the river here most of the time. The only thing to be wary of is hitting the 9 and running into KJ, as someone who plays draws aggressively could play KJ like this, it's probably how I'd play it (bar the stupid bet sizing lol :P ). I think the turn call is hugely player dependent. When you get there on the river, well played to get his stack :)

      Second hand I'm probably dumping preflop, if it's suited I might give it a whirl since the SB comes along but even then connectors just don't play that well oop unless you flop monsters/draws (this is something I need to try to fix in my own game, folding suited connectors to raises when I'm oop :P ). Flop's played great though, you get CO to stack off with you and SB's never sticking around after that action.

      The QQ hand is a bit of a nightmare after you get that many callers and see a flop like that :f_o: The flop raise is good though and after he just flat calls he's probably drawing rather than having a made hand most of the time. For this reason I think the turn shove is excessive, you actually WANT CO to call you with his draw because you want to extract value, and you will in the long run by giving him bad odds and him calling (if you're deeper stacked you can also fold the river here too when he undoubtedly shoves it :f_mad: ). The fact that he called your shove is great for you EV-wise of course, and it's bad luck that he hit because you were giving him god awful odds, but I think you'll make more profit here overall by betting 3/4-pot size rather than shoving and scaring away draws, unless you have a read that he'll call any bet here.
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      i like the idea of playing at least 10k hands even though you are rolled for nl5.. good discipline - better to brush up on the fundamentals where it's cheap! i'm sure you will be out of nl2 in no time, just keep your decisions simple and don't over-think :)
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      Cheers hendo2000

      I posted the QQ hand for evaluation you should check out mbml's reply :)