[NL20-NL50] NL50 FR - JJ on BB

    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $60.28 (120.6 bb)
      SB: $58.44 (116.9 bb)
      Hero (BB): $76.08 (152.2 bb)
      UTG+2: $62.94 (125.9 bb)
      MP1: $21.46 (42.9 bb)
      MP2: $99.46 (198.9 bb)
      MP3: $29.43 (58.9 bb)
      CO: $51 (102 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J J
      UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises to $1.50, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $1.50, 3 folds, Hero calls $1

      Flop: ($4.75) T 8 9 (3 players)
      Hero checks, MP1 bets $3, MP3 calls $3, Hero raises to $14, MP1 raises to $19.96 and is all-in, MP3 raises to $27.93 and is all-in, Hero calls $13.93

      Turn: ($80.57) 9 (3 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($80.57) 3 (3 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results:
      $80.57 pot ($3.00 rake)
      Final Board: T 8 9 9 3
      Hero showed J J and lost (-$29.43 net)
      MP1 mucked A A and lost (-$21.46 net)
      MP3 showed Q J and won $77.57 ($48.14 net)

      MP1 Stats: VPIP: 26, PFR: 13, 3B: 3, AF: 2,0, Hands: 344
      MP3 Stats: VPIP: 24, PFR: 16, 3B: 8, AF: 1,6, Hands: 632

      Thoughts?
  • 5 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi,

      Any reason as to why we are not 3-betting this preflop versus two mid stacks?

      I'm not a huge fan of the stacking off on this flop. We will rarely be ahead and our draw outs are not very clean. Even if one stacks off with AT it's not really enough and when both go all in the chances are that we are at least behind to one of them.

      What ranges did you put them on?
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by BogdanPS
      Hi,

      Any reason as to why we are not 3-betting this preflop versus two mid stacks?

      I'm not a huge fan of the stacking off on this flop. We will rarely be ahead and our draw outs are not very clean. Even if one stacks off with AT it's not really enough and when both go all in the chances are that we are at least behind to one of them.

      What ranges did you put them on?
      Looking at it now I honestly do not know why I didn't 3Bet PF.
      That's a standard of mine.
      Maybe I didn't see they were midstacked? Hard to believe as i rarely overcome 4 tables at once, and I'm usually only 3 tabling.

      On the flop my thinking was:
      well PFR CBets, and the other one called, at this point I call too for odds or because I still might have the best hand.
      But at that point the turn size will be so big compared to their stacks that there's possibly no way I'm gonna find a fold, so I'm just gonna raise here with the hope of getting max value from other draws or forcing some strange FE from poor player that got scared with better hand (due to board texture) or simple value from AT, 77 and the like.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by AtrociousNightmare
      Originally posted by BogdanPS
      Hi,

      Any reason as to why we are not 3-betting this preflop versus two mid stacks?

      I'm not a huge fan of the stacking off on this flop. We will rarely be ahead and our draw outs are not very clean. Even if one stacks off with AT it's not really enough and when both go all in the chances are that we are at least behind to one of them.

      What ranges did you put them on?
      Looking at it now I honestly do not know why I didn't 3Bet PF.
      That's a standard of mine.
      Maybe I didn't see they were midstacked? Hard to believe as i rarely overcome 4 tables at once, and I'm usually only 3 tabling.

      On the flop my thinking was:
      well PFR CBets, and the other one called, at this point I call too for odds or because I still might have the best hand.
      But at that point the turn size will be so big compared to their stacks that there's possibly no way I'm gonna find a fold, so I'm just gonna raise here with the hope of getting max value from other draws or forcing some strange FE from poor player that got scared with better hand (due to board texture) or simple value from AT, 77 and the like.
      And how do we do versus a range that gets it with us? And can we really expect FE versus two mid stacks on this board?

      Maybe one of them would fold but I'd call a miracle if both do and it's almost always a weaker hand (when they do fold).
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      So true.

      So here, it would have been call 1 street and re-evaluate?
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by AtrociousNightmare
      So true.

      So here, it would have been call 1 street and re-evaluate?
      We either call or fold, probably leaning more towards a fold the more I think about it. Since these shortstacks are not overly aggressive I can't expect MP1 to bet junk nor Mp2 to call junk. We lose QQ-AA, 88-TT, QJ, some 2p combos and a lot of fds or pair+draw have a ton of equity vs us. In the best case scenario for us they have some draws and those have decent equity versus us.

      However I think it would be hard for me to get into this spot because I'd always 3-bet here.