3-bet / 4-bet FOR VALUE?

    • Vip3rNZ
      Vip3rNZ
      Silver
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 340
      Ok so I play 2NL - 16NL depending on bankroll and I play Fullring.

      I play 16-24 tables, because I'm a gamer, i need things to be happening fast or I just get bored and lose focus.

      What I need to know is when should I 4-bet for value? Apaart from the obvious aa/kk spots.


      Currently with hands like AK/AQs/QQ/JJ I'm just flating preflop against all opponents from all positions, and raising limpers or opening these from any position.

      I need to know things like when to 3bet these hands FOR VALUE, not as a bluff, sometimes I will 3-bet ak/aq as a bluff against sb/bu/co opens or people with high fold 2 3-bet as long as there are no fish behind me likly to cold call or cold 4-bet ( if i'm paying enough attention ), but i do this with almost any 2 or without any reads normally at least an ace or a king, as a blocker

      Also when/how to 4-bet these hands FOR VALUE what am I looking for to be like YUSS time for a 4-bet with the above mentioned hands.
  • 6 replies
    • Saren113
      Saren113
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2009 Posts: 2,867
      When in blinds for example or BTN vs CO is spots were you can widen your 4b v range. You later your position is you more you can 3b pre vor value.
    • Vip3rNZ
      Vip3rNZ
      Silver
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 340
      thanks i kinda knew this much tho, looking for more specifics :D
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      When somebody has a high 3bet in certain spot, like BB vs SB someone's 3betting 15% you can easily get it in with TT+ AK. Especially since your OOP in this spot i really don't see how calling a 3bet with AK is going to be +EV so i think thats a mandatory 4bet get it in spot with JJ and AK. You should also look at his fold to 4 bet stat as well.
    • Vip3rNZ
      Vip3rNZ
      Silver
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 340
      So if someone is 3beting 15%+ in this spot and i get 3bet by the bb from the SB and im holding JJ its time for a fist pump 4bet? how big, small or just shove?

      How would the fold 2 4bet stat come in here? if bb 3bets me with 15%+ and i 4bet JJ for value, he folds to a 4bet 90% but this time he 5 bets? thats time to fold?
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Well fold 2 4bet stat is useful. Like for example you have 2 guys who both 3bet 20% of the time in that spot

      First player has fold to 4bet of 80%. This means he bluffs a lot but only gets it in with QQ+ AK. Gameplan against him is not to stick it in with JJ because you just get it in bad. You also don't want to 4bet KK or AA since his just going to fold most of the time. So pretty much my 4bet range would look like sticking it in with QQ and AK and 4bet bluff with every Ax and Kx.

      The second player has the same 3bet stat but is folding to 4bets only 20% of the time. Now this would tell us that his gotta be 5bet bluffing everytime he has Ax or low PP. Now against this guy our plan is definitely to 4bet anything that can be considered for value against that range(TT+AQ+) and pretty much never bluff vs him at all.

      Obviously does are extreme examples but there are players but you get the point.


      In the end the most important thing you have to consider is your own image. Like if the #2 guy whose pretty much a maniac is going to check your 4bet stats and see your only 4betting 0.5% his never going to jam anything but AA on you unless his completely dumb. Today pretty much everyone has a hud and if you walking around with <2% 4bet nobody is going to stick it in light vs you like ever, especially in FR.

      In the end what it comes down to is if his ever going to stick it in with worse when you got your JJ. Now to figure that out you have to take his stats into consideration and then you have to consider your own stats and how this will effect his decision and then you can try to figure out what kind of range his 5bet jamming vs you.
    • Th334
      Th334
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2012 Posts: 971
      Now to figure that out you have to take his stats into consideration and then you have to consider your own stats and how this will effect his decision and then you can try to figure out what kind of range his 5bet jamming vs you.

      I think you are just wasting your talent, guys, if you can think at level 3 while playing 16-24 tables :D Try inventing the cure of all disease, conquer the world... I don't know, stuff like that.

      I don't think I would manage to click Fold on 24 tables without running out of time on the first one...it's like fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold... :D Come on, really?