Poker Pot Odds

    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      Hello,

      Say the blinds are t100/t200 and both mine and villains stack are t2,000.

      Villain limps t200, SB folds, BB checks with 5 :heart: -4 :heart:

      Flop: t500
      A :club: - 3 :diamond: - 6 :heart:

      Now we have a straight draw which we will make 1 out of 3 times if we make it to the river.

      If the opponent bets t250 into a pot of t500, I am getting 3 to 1 for my money. This means I'll call a t250 bet to win a pot of t750 or is it t1,000 (including my money)?

      The chances of me hitting those 8 outs by the turn is around 16% so I am calling a half pot bet on the flop with the expectation that I'll get more chips from my opponent when I hit on the river.

      Turn: t1,000
      Turn is a blank

      Hero checks, Villain bets 500, hero calls 500

      River: 7 :heart:

      Now that I've made my straight, I paid more than I should have to draw for it. So how much do I have to bet on the river to break even or to show a profit?

      Thanks,

      MB
  • 13 replies
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      From a quick glance doesn't seem like you will profit even if you go all in.

      And fix river to a 7 instead of second 6 :heart: , rigged deck. :f_biggrin:
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,923
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      From a quick glance doesn't seem like you will profit even if you go all in.

      And fix river to a 7 instead of second 6 :heart: , rigged deck. :f_biggrin:
      This :D

      I've moved this thread to our SNG Discussion board for further analysis.

      Have a great weekend,
      Gary
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      sorry, I was in a hurry because I had to get ready for work lol! I changed it now.
    • kurrkabin
      kurrkabin
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      When you make the calculations-always add your chips to the total pot. Meaning if the pot is 750 and it's 250 chips to call, you are paying 250 to play for a pot of 1000. Or 4:1 pot odds in other words. So you have to be good like 25% of the time. Which is not your direct odds for the straight draw. But you also have some backdoor FD outs(count it as 1 out or 4%).

      Another thing would be implied odds if you hit, although being so short, that's not in your advantage.


      It's a bit confusing, but I assume villain limps and you are first to act- then just lead with the straight draw. It's unlikely he has Ax. Don't c/c with these effective stack sizes. By leading, you create FE and although not giving yourself good direct odds, you do have outs on later streets in case you get called.
    • wiarygodny
      wiarygodny
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2009 Posts: 1,395
      Originally posted by kurrkabin
      When you make the calculations-always add your chips to the total pot. Meaning if the pot is 750 and it's 250 chips to call, you are paying 250 to play for a pot of 1000. Or 4:1 pot odds in other words. So you have to be good like 25% of the time.
      Correct me if i'm wrong but i always tought that when we use the 'ratio method' to give odds we DO NOT count our chips for the call in the total amount which would mean that here it's 3:1 rather than 4:1 imo. When we give the odds as a percentage then we DO count our chips in. In other words imo 3:1 is the same as 25%, 4:1 the same as 20% etc. Sorry if i sound a bit picky and even more sorry if im wrong :)
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by wiarygodny
      Originally posted by kurrkabin
      When you make the calculations-always add your chips to the total pot. Meaning if the pot is 750 and it's 250 chips to call, you are paying 250 to play for a pot of 1000. Or 4:1 pot odds in other words. So you have to be good like 25% of the time.
      Correct me if i'm wrong but i always tought that when we use the 'ratio method' to give odds we DO NOT count our chips for the call in the total amount which would mean that here it's 3:1 rather than 4:1 imo. When we give the odds as a percentage then we DO count our chips in. In other words imo 3:1 is the same as 25%, 4:1 the same as 20% etc. Sorry if i sound a bit picky and even more sorry if im wrong :)
      I always thought it was this way as well where 3:1 you need 25% equity and 4:1 you need 20 and you don't add your call to the pot odds. If not I've been doing pot odd calculations wrong for a year. :f_biggrin:
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Yea, you only add your chips when converting to percentage.
    • kurrkabin
      kurrkabin
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      I guess it's me to blame! I am not sure and this is shameful moment! :P

      Basically what I try to say is that if someone bets let's say-250 into a pot of 500, then the pot is 750 and it costs us 250 to play for a pot of 1000, therefore we get 25% pot odds! Which is 3:1, not 4:1, so there percatange and ratio method and this is what I got screwed imo.
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      So based on the betting sequence here, we would have to bet t510+ on the river to break even?
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      On the turn you're a 5.25:1 dog. This means you need to be calling 500 at an implied pot of 2625. Since you're actually only calling at a pot of 1500, you must win another 1125 from him on the river, which he does not have so he is too shortstacked for calling turn bet to be +EV.

      I think this is correct as long as we're supposed to calculate implied odds on a street by street basis, which I think we do, as it just gets way too complicated for multistreet implied odds since both the pot size and equity changes (brain explodes) :f_o:
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      Oh okay, I get what you're implying here. So it's more +EV to lead out with our draw on the flop if our opponent is limping a wide range of hands on the button?

      Say our villain raises any Ace-6+, 66+,any broadway and limps with a2-a5, 22-55, k6s+,Q7s+, j8s+, T8s+, k7o+, q8+, j8+, t8o+, suited connectors and some one gappors then we have about 45% equity on this flop against his limping range.

      So if I bet out on the flop, say t300 and the villain pushes for t1800 then the pot is t2600 and it's t1500 for me to call. This then becomes a +EV calll correct?

      Thanks,

      MB
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by maythany
      Oh okay, I get what you're implying here. So it's more +EV to lead out with our draw on the flop if our opponent is limping a wide range of hands on the button?

      Say our villain raises any Ace-6+, 66+,any broadway and limps with a2-a5, 22-55, k6s+,Q7s+, j8s+, T8s+, k7o+, q8+, j8+, t8o+, suited connectors and some one gappors then we have about 45% equity on this flop against his limping range.

      So if I bet out on the flop, say t300 and the villain pushes for t1800 then the pot is t2600 and it's t1500 for me to call. This then becomes a +EV calll correct?

      Thanks,

      MB
      Almost. This time you are slightly -EV because you're calling 1500 to 2600 so you need 36.6% equity. We have approximately only 32% equity. If you bet pot size or more on the flop you can give yourself odds to call a shove, but really I think folding the flop is best since you're both quite shortstacked and you'll probably find better spots.
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      Good point, and thanks for the info! I understand pot odds a lot better now. :s_love: