[NL2-NL10] A-high vs hyperaggro player

    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Poker Stars $5.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 2054422
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $22.28 - VPIP: 30, PFR: 20, 3B: 0, AF: 0,0, Hands: 10
      SB: $5.11 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 13, 3B: 5, AF: 1,1, Hands: 221
      BB: $4.99 - VPIP: 37, PFR: 31, 3B: 24, AF: 26,0, Hands: 75
      Hero (UTG): $5.00 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 16, 3B: 4, AF: 2,0, Hands: 80383
      CO: $2.07 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 13, 3B: 0, AF: 0,0, Hands: 15

      Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is UTG with A :heart: J :club:
      Hero raises to $0.15, 3 folds, BB calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.32) K :club: 7 :diamond: 2 :club: (2 players)
      BB bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

      Turn: ($0.92) 2 :spade: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks

      River: ($0.92) 9 :heart: (2 players)
      BB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50
  • 12 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi Imimba,

      Preflop: looks fine

      Postflop: This is a better spot to bluffcatch versus him.

      Was this hand played after or before the other one? Remember how he played the other one (bet the turn regardless of picking up a pair). So his check here is a bit more suspicious. However I still think that we can call the river for 25% pot odds because some hands he was looking to give up with may still bluff there.
    • Dracsharp
      Dracsharp
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      Joined: 22.01.2010 Posts: 2,478
      I think fold is the right move, granted we likely have a call for value on the flop, but are you going to call him down with an ace high while him potting every street ?

      I doubt it, let it go and wait for very least a 2. pair, if we fight a maniac better go to showdown or give up flop.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Dracsharp
      I think fold is the right move, granted we likely have a call for value on the flop, but are you going to call him down with an ace high while him potting every street ?

      I doubt it, let it go and wait for very least a 2. pair, if we fight a maniac better go to showdown or give up flop.
      Have you seen the other hand where he called down the same guy with K high?

      I'm assuming here that he would call him down 3 streets (based on the other hand).
    • Dracsharp
      Dracsharp
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2010 Posts: 2,478
      Even if he does we don't know that much about him, if he bets any2 3 streets then we have a thin value calldown, but if he ever would check his weaker hands which we obviously don't know then we just calldown against better.

      The assumption of that relatively unknown aggro would 3 barrel any2 anytime is not something i would go with. Even the biggest maniacs catch their breath sometime, or they don't last 75 hands.

      I consider AF unreliable especially with lower sample, so i prefer AF% and stat wise he might be just enjoying stealing from the nits, i tend to have similar or even looser stats when sitting on 2-3 nits and people don't limp in.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Dracsharp
      Even if he does we don't know that much about him, if he bets any2 3 streets then we have a thin value calldown, but if he ever would check his weaker hands which we obviously don't know then we just calldown against better.

      The assumption of that relatively unknown aggro would 3 barrel any2 anytime is not something i would go with. Even the biggest maniacs catch their breath sometime, or they don't last 75 hands.

      I consider AF unreliable especially with lower sample, so i prefer AF% and stat wise he might be just enjoying stealing from the nits, i tend to have similar or even looser stats when sitting on 2-3 nits and people don't limp in.
      Well said, that was my thought in the previous hand.

      In this hand it looks better because we don't call 3-streets and he could still take a stab at the river as played (and we get 25% pot odds).
    • Dracsharp
      Dracsharp
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      Joined: 22.01.2010 Posts: 2,478
      We can't control how many times he bets, if he checks the flop we can call him down, but the reason for the flop call can't be that he checked the turn, so no i don't think it's better here at all.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Dracsharp
      We can't control how many times he bets, if he checks the flop we can call him down, but the reason for the flop call can't be that he checked the turn, so no i don't think it's better here at all.
      What do you mean? Unless we know what his line means (from past experience) on the river he can still bluff, why can't he especially once we check the turn?

      For 25% pot odds I do look him up here especially if we've seen him play aggro so far. Sure the turn check is a bit scary but as I said above maybe he was giving up and saw that we also checked. There are draws on this board that he may look to bluff us off and weaker pairs.

      I do agree that calling 3 streets would be a bit light without history/info.
    • Dracsharp
      Dracsharp
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      Joined: 22.01.2010 Posts: 2,478
      What i said is we can't know that he will check turn nor likely considering he pot donks flop and aggression, so the flop call is a mistake.

      Of course in the current hand we obviously calling river, but he could have cbet turn do we call that and fold river or calldown to river ? Clearly both bad.

      Our flop call ONLY works if he checks the turn.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Dracsharp
      What i said is we can't know that he will check turn nor likely considering he pot donks flop and aggression, so the flop call is a mistake.

      Of course in the current hand we obviously calling river, but he could have cbet turn do we call that and fold river or calldown to river ? Clearly both bad.

      Our flop call ONLY works if he checks the turn.
      Oh yes, I misunderstood. I thought you talked about river.

      Otherwise I agree with you there.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
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      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Wow, what a lengthy dialogue!

      Well, I just dont like giving up pots if somoene has a loose range, and is aggro at the same time, AND I have at least A-high.
      My motto really is: Just because I miss, it does not mean Villain hits.

      Flop comes down, I MISS, and villain donks pot. I dunno, I just dont like folding vs these guys. He's being agressive doesnt narrow down his range too much, so if I'm ahead preflop, I'm ahead on ANY flop.

      (Again, I totally agree with you guys, that this should not be a call in a tournament, if I have the skill advantage. But in a CG, if it's even a little bit of +ev, we loose value if we fold.)
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Wow, what a lengthy dialogue!

      Well, I just dont like giving up pots if somoene has a loose range, and is aggro at the same time, AND I have at least A-high.
      My motto really is: Just because I miss, it does not mean Villain hits.

      Flop comes down, I MISS, and villain donks pot. I dunno, I just dont like folding vs these guys. He's being agressive doesnt narrow down his range too much, so if I'm ahead preflop, I'm ahead on ANY flop.

      (Again, I totally agree with you guys, that this should not be a call in a tournament, if I have the skill advantage. But in a CG, if it's even a little bit of +ev, we loose value if we fold.)
      We are not talking tournaments here.

      A high is definitely better than K high but slightly more. The problem we run into again is that you expect villain to bet everything and don't realize that our equity in the hand actually matters and we should look at it over 2-3 streets and not just one street.

      In other words, how can my hand improve or how can I call down on future streets. What cards can we expect him to continue bluffing on, what helps his range, etc.

      And as you can see in my first comment I didn't mind your play here although I do feel that playing based on reads in these spots it's better than just guessing.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
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      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      +1