[NL2-NL10] NL5 SH - QQ vs SB 3bet

    • painterman007
      painterman007
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2009 Posts: 82
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.05(BB) Replayer
      SB ($8.84)
      BB ($5)
      UTG ($5)
      UTG+1 ($4.86) (70/51 over 47 hands)
      CO ($0.97)
      Hero ($5.08)

      Dealt to Hero Q:club: Q:diamond:

      fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, SB raises to $0.40, fold, Hero raises to $1.20

      Quite a loose aggressive player.
      Being 3-bet I think of flatting, but decide against it because: "What if a K or A hits..." They make up a big part of his 3-bet calling range and also shoving, which I would have called based on his stats. So I 4b 2x pot (3x 3b).

      What do you reckon?
  • 5 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi Painterman,

      We shouldn't 4 bet here because we are afraid of A or K but rather because we can do it for value and we think it's more ev.

      Are the stats you are showing for sb or utg?

      If they are for SB we should 4bet for value.
    • painterman007
      painterman007
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2009 Posts: 82
      Yes SB of course, sorry! Seem to have missed the line! :D

      So what we are hoping for really is a shove ? This is what I was thinking in the hand, and still think, but I would like hear that other people would play this way aswell.

      In addition, vs this guy what would our 3b calling and 4-b/shove ranges look like?

      His 3b is quite small out of position, a good player would raise bigger OOP and with strong hands, so I would open my ranges in both cases.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by painterman007
      Yes SB of course, sorry! Seem to have missed the line! :D

      So what we are hoping for really is a shove ? This is what I was thinking in the hand, and still think, but I would like hear that other people would play this way aswell.

      In addition, vs this guy what would our 3b calling and 4-b/shove ranges look like?

      His 3b is quite small out of position, a good player would raise bigger OOP and with strong hands, so I would open my ranges in both cases.
      Well, in this sample of hands, has he folded to 4-bets or shoved? And if he shoved what did he show up with?

      It's all about what we've seen here. If we haven't seen anything I may extend to JJ+, AQs+ but that's about it. Of course we can call and play postflop a wider range (we can begin by raising smaller preflop to face a smaller 3-bet so we can call more often).

      The value in 4-bet/calling QQ there comes, against someone like him, from two spots.

      He either 3-bets a lot and folds and thus we collect a ton of dead money and when he does shove we still have decent equity.

      Or he 3-bets a lot and doesn't fold and then we have pure value versus his 5bet range or call range.

      Either way it's a win/win for us.
    • painterman007
      painterman007
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2009 Posts: 82
      Thanks for your reply!

      No, we haven't seen any blind defends other than when he flat T9s out of BB vs 3bb UTG openraise, but vs a villain as loose as this we should raise JJ+, AQs+ for value, standard 3bb, and smaller with the ones we intend to only call a 3-bet with or small over the entire combined range?

      I know one should try to keep bet sizes consistent, but we can't normally get both value from bigger 3-bet/folds and cheap calls of his 3-bets. How do we decide which is our best option? After all, we actually know very little about our opponent. Only that he is playing and raising alot of hands, that he likes to flat call with speculative hands and that he is abit deep. The fact that he is deep would suggest he has a stronger call/shove range, right?

      - Painterman
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      He is not deep with us so his range should not change based on that factor alone.

      By default we want to raise bigger with a stronger range (so for example if our range is mostly value and rarely bluffs we raise bigger) and smaller with a weaker range.

      So let's take a 70/50 maniac for example.

      Against him it would be stupid to 3-bet/4-bet as a bluff so we do raise purely for value. Because of that we can make our 3-bet/4-bet larger. Of course further variables can change our bet size further (maybe he is induced by small raises, etc.)