AK @ tourney

    • Horin
      Horin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2008 Posts: 137
      Hello, Ive been kicked from tournament after this hand. do you think it was played badly?

      Game #6147656333: Tourney (ID7690231) $3+$0.30 - Hold'em NL (75/150) - 2008/07/16 - 14:46:38 (UK)
      Table "7690231 - 3" Seat 7 is the button.
      Seat 1: karibu (3290 in chips)
      Seat 2: Nachonovo (4300 in chips)
      Seat 3: Markv0401 (2779 in chips)
      Seat 4: Gfunk1 sits out
      Seat 5: Keve19101 (6744 in chips)
      Seat 7: franzy13 (775 in chips)
      Seat 8: Horin (1780 in chips)
      Seat 9: Allen2708 (8952 in chips)
      Seat 10: Sscully98 (1880 in chips)
      Horin: posts small blind 75
      Allen2708: posts big blind 150
      ----- HOLE CARDS -----
      dealt to Horin [Ah Kc]
      Sscully98: folds
      karibu: calls 150
      Nachonovo: folds
      Markv0401: folds
      Gfunk1: folds
      Keve19101: calls 150
      franzy13: calls 150
      Horin: raises to 450
      Allen2708: calls 300
      karibu: calls 300
      Keve19101: calls 300
      franzy13: folds
      ----- FLOP ----- [5s 9d Ac]
      Horin: bets 1330 and is all-in
      Allen2708: folds
      karibu: folds
      Keve19101: calls 1330
      ----- TURN ----- [5s 9d Ac][3s]
      ----- RIVER ----- [5s 9d Ac 3s][3h]
      ----- SHOW DOWN -----
      Horin: shows [Ah Kc] (Two Pairs, Aces and Threes, King high)
      Keve19101: shows [Ad 3d] (A Full House, Threes full of Aces)
      Keve19101 collected 4610 from Main pot
      ----- SUMMARY -----
      Total pot 4610 Main pot 4610 Rake 0
      Board [5s 9d Ac 3s 3h]
      Seat 1: karibu folded on the Flop
      Seat 2: Nachonovo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
      Seat 3: Markv0401 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
      Seat 4: Gfunk1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
      Seat 5: Keve19101 showed [Ad 3d] and won (4610) with A Full House, Threes full of Aces
      Seat 7: franzy13 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
      Seat 8: Horin (small blind) showed [Ah Kc] and lost with Two Pairs, Aces and Threes, King high
      Seat 9: Allen2708 (big blind) folded on the Flop
      Seat 10: Sscully98 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
  • 10 replies
    • VinoKOM
      VinoKOM
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.02.2008 Posts: 138
      Yes u did unfortunately.. You should have gone all in pre flop.
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hi Horin

      I agree with VinoKOM - simply push all-in pre-flop. You have less than 13 big blinds - there are 3 limpers - any type of real raise commits you anyway -> so push :)

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • Horin
      Horin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2008 Posts: 137
      Hi, thanks for answers.

      yes I was thinking about going allin preflop, but still it was tourney and I was trying to survive. So I decided to fold if I miss flop and get another chance later. Correct me if I am wrong about this approach to tourneys please :)
    • VinoKOM
      VinoKOM
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.02.2008 Posts: 138
      This is as good a hand as ur likely 2 get hey. U also only hav 12 bb left so u hav 2 make a move soon. U r also pot committed any way if u do raise, even if it is only a little 1, so u may as well maximise fold equity.

      ur goal in a tournament should always be 2 win, not 2 survive.. This is where i believe ur problem is comin with this hand.

      the majority of the time u will hav any callers dominated and occasionally u will b the slight dog in a coin flip. U hav 2 push!
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      By the way, in future, you should:

      convert your hand (Hand posting guide), and
      post in the sample hands forum (http://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/board.php?boardid=1429):) .
    • rhinoneil
      rhinoneil
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.04.2008 Posts: 1,159
      Originally posted by chenny8888
      By the way, in future, you should:

      convert your hand (Hand posting guide), and
      post in the sample hands forum (http://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/board.php?boardid=1429):) .
      Hi I agree that the correct move here is to push.
      However I dont agree that the target is not to survive but to win. IMO, the strategy with mtts should be to survive and to steadily accumulate chips. I think survival is the ONLY goal until you reach the final table. Once there the blinds are usually so high that the lead changes often and it is quite usual to see the person who starts the FT as chip leader to be one of the first out.
      So my advice in relation to mtts is just that, SURVIVE til the final table then get aggressive.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      Hi rhinoneil, the problem is then, when you get to the final table, that you have the shortest stack. You want to have a big stack at all late game stages of the tournament, such that you are able to bubble abuse, and basically bully your opponents. So taking risks, and making sure you have this big stack is essential.
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Silver
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      I would push this preflop, because I want to see all 5 community cards. Im never folding AK in an unraised spot with ~13bb's, so lookin at the flop while im never gonna fold isnt the best idea.
    • rhinoneil
      rhinoneil
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.04.2008 Posts: 1,159
      Hi Chenny
      I dont think that surviving til the final table necessarily means that you are going to be the short stack.
      A steady accumulation of chips is required whilst not putting your whole stack at risk with marginal hands.
      Of course there are times when it is necessary to take a risk after all we are poker players not accountants.
      What I was saying in a roundabout way was that the strategy in my opinion should not be to set out to try to win the tournament in the early stages. How many times do you see the chip leader after the first hour or two hours go on to win the tourny? Not many I would say.
      I dont claim to be an expert at tournys but I have won and final tabled quite a few and have only once gone on to win after taking an early lead and that was in a situation where every card hit for me and I just couldnt lose.
      When you are playing mtts there should be plenty of opportunities to get your chips in with the best hand without gambling on a 50/50. If you get them in as a clear favourite and lose, well that is the nature of the game.
      As I said, in the hand as described I would have pushed pre-flop myself so a 50/50 gamble is right under the circumstances.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      @rhinoneil: that's because the early chipleader had to get pretty lucky early on, where an early chip lead is more dependent on luck than skill IMO. because on average players in tournaments are very bad, on average the early chipleader will not be able to take advantage of their position and take down the tournament.