[NL20-NL50] nl20 QQ paired board

    • harrka
      harrka
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2011 Posts: 241
      Prima, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP: $21.20 (106 bb)
      Hero (CO): $20 (100 bb)
      BTN: $9.55 (47.8 bb)
      SB: $53.35 (266.8 bb)
      BB: $18.21 (91.1 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with Q Q
      MP folds, Hero raises to $0.60, 2 folds, BB calls $0.40

      Flop: ($1.30) 9 9 8 (2 players)
      BB bets $1.30, Hero raises to $2.60, BB calls $1.30

      Turn: ($6.50) J (2 players)
      BB bets $15.01 and is all-in, Hero calls $15.01

      River: ($36.52) Q (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Anonymous table, just sat on the table so I had like 20 hands from villain (14/10), so not much info. I minraised on the flop (to get a call or induce him to do something stupid) because I thought he wouldnt expect me to raise here lightly with valuehands, so it could look like a bluff, and 9x is probably not that much in his range, and I think he wouldnt play it this way to make me fold instantly most of my hands.

      Then he thinks maybe 20sek and calls my raise. And instantly donkshoves turn. I was like wtf, but it didnt seem too strong here either, so I called. Maybe some turned bdfd + gutshot or overs etc?
  • 5 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Do they spew in general vs minraises? Otherwise, how can you say you minraise to induce? You don't know if the minraise induces, you WANT it to induce. Making people do what you want is hard, just exploit what they do, don't try and change that for now, you'll learn that when you play more vs them.

      Do people pot random junk? What about betting >2x pot on turn with random junk? Unless I know he's just a random spewtard (doesn't look according to hands so far and no reads) I would play the hand to get to showdown cheaper. You need them to seriously overplay hands to get it all in the way you did imo. He has quite a few pair + draw hands plus you can be drawing dead already. When he bets 2.2x pot you need to have about 42% equity vs his shoving range to make the call which is tough if he plays his whole made hands range this way.
    • harrka
      harrka
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2011 Posts: 241
      What hands do you put to his range with this line? What I have seen in these tables it is VERY unlikely that anyone would play really strong hand this way. If he would have 99,88,98 would he want me to fold, which he is now trying to do? There could be sometimes be 9x that is very scared of me getting straigth or flush, but still I dont see potdonkbet as a strong hand.

      However he had A :club: 2 :club:
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      9x, T7, JT, QT all make sense.. it's not the 4 FH combos I'm worried about. His draw had about 22% equity against your hand and betting 2.2x pot with that is pretty good consider the odds he gives you. Yes, he is often bluffing but his sizing allows him to do so from a game theory perspective. Apart from that, count the 9x, T7, QT combos and you see his range is not bad at all there. He can bluff with about 40% of his range there and you cannot exploit him unless he deviates a lot from this in which case you can always call or always fold.

      It's pretty close to a 0EV call imo:


      Board: 9:spade: 9:club: 8:diamond:  J:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    45.78%  45.41%   0.37% { QdQs }
      MP3    54.22%  53.85%   0.37% { AJs, A9s, K9s, Q9s, J9s+, T9s, T7s, 97s-96s, AcTc, KcTc, QcTc, Ac8c, Kc8c, Qc8c, Ac7c, Kc7c, Qc7c, Ac6c, Kc6c, Qc6c, Ac5c, Kc5c, Ac4c, Kc4c, Ac3c, Kc3c, Ac2c, Kc2c, A9o, KJo, K9o, Q9o, J9o+, T9o }



      Maybe I missed some hands in his range or added many of others.. If your assumption is that he spews against your line, you obv have to call but before I ship my stack in marginally ahead I usually take the line that favours a showdown. I have position, I have a good hand, I can use info from showdown, EV of stack off is small anyway.
    • harrka
      harrka
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2011 Posts: 241
      Prima, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP: $21.20 (106 bb)
      Hero (CO): $20 (100 bb)
      BTN: $9.55 (47.8 bb)
      SB: $53.35 (266.8 bb)
      BB: $18.21 (91.1 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with Q Q
      MP folds, Hero raises to $0.60, 2 folds, BB calls $0.40

      Flop: ($1.30) 9 9 8 (2 players)
      BB bets $1.30, Hero calls $1.30

      Turn: ($3.90) J (2 players)
      BB bets $3.90, Hero calls...

      Ok, thanks for more accurate answer. If I would have called flop I suppose he would have potted turn, so the best line would have been call his turn pot bet and re-evaluate river? (And of course call the cooler-out queen).

      What if he would instead of betting turn, have checked turn, chkbk, b/f or b/c?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      If he pots again it's a call imo. You are still more than getting the right odds plus now he can randomly bet hands with less equity such as 78, 66, 77, J8, etc.

      If he checks, I would value bet turn. I don't think he folds pairs too soon and often he just hit Jx so doesn't need to bluff anymore therefore he tries to let you 'bluff'. Most often bad aggro players play their hands to tell the story of the opposite of what they have so they check made hands and bet bluffs. Recreational players view poker as a game where you just have to deceive your opponent and they are wired to fake weakness by checking (or in live scenarios by shaking head, making the click sound, looking uninterested in the pot) and do the opposite with faking strength. They don't have any idea of ranges and street for street play, they are vacuum black/white players (by black/white I mean they either have you beat or they don't).