[NL20-NL50] nl25 98o SH 3betting ool

    • jules97
      jules97
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.06.2012 Posts: 1,449
      BUT 21/17 opening BUT 45%, fold 3bet 83%, 4b 7% 2.1k hands

      I had kind of been going nutso on BUT @ about 80% 3bet, but I don't think BB took that into consideration.

      BB

      Had called 3bet with TT-JJ, AK, AT
      Had 4bet AQo from BUT
      Had played draws aggressively postflop
      Probe Turn 75% (6/8)
      Float total 72% (16/22)

      Ok, so him calling my trashy 3bet looked pretty scary. I was thinking pretty much something like TT-JJ, AQ-AK. Maybe another pair or suited broadway or so.

      I hit top pair so figure I can get some value from his Ax so bet the flop. Then hero call the turn... because of his dishonesty of betting when check too. I was going to fold the river if he bet... honestly! :f_cool: :f_cool:

      PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      CO: $41.30
      BTN: $25.00
      Hero (SB): $28.64
      BB: $82.28
      UTG: $46.84
      MP: $25.00

      Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has 9:spade: 8:club:

      fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.62, Hero raises to $2.00, BB calls $1.75, fold

      Flop: ($4.62, 2 players) 6:club: 8:diamond: 4:club:
      Hero bets $2.20, BB calls $2.20

      Turn: ($9.02, 2 players) 5:heart:
      Hero checks, BB bets $6.60, Hero calls $6.60

      River: ($22.22, 2 players) 5:diamond:
      Hero checks, BB checks

      Hero shows 9:spade: 8:club: (Two Pair, Eights and Fives) (Pre 35%, Flop 75%, Turn 86%)
      BB mucks A:spade: K:club: (One Pair, Fives) (Pre 65%, Flop 25%, Turn 14%)
      Hero wins $21.22
  • 4 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Your sizing is inconsistent with a value hand so I do expect him to bluff turn..

      Postflop you played it fine imo.

      That said, why would you want to 3bet 80% from SB vs anyone is beyond me. He is clearly adjusted already when he calls AT and lower.. I would just keep my 3bet a reasonable amount and print money, I wouldn't go nuts to force him to adjust and not give me money anymore. Doesn't make sense to force someone to play correctly.

      In this case he obviously has no idea what he is doing by not 4betting AK but he has position and unless you have huge postflop edge he will sooner or later own you or he leaves and you no longer make money from him. Neither is a good result imo.

      Had the flop been Axx or Kxx would you not cbet? What's your cbet in a 3bet pot vs him? You hit so rarely that if you bluff postflop often and he tilt calls you in some spots you are just spewing money and his tilt calls become a correct adjustment. Do you want that?
    • jules97
      jules97
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.06.2012 Posts: 1,449
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Your sizing is inconsistent with a value hand so I do expect him to bluff turn..

      Postflop you played it fine imo.

      That said, why would you want to 3bet 80% from SB vs anyone is beyond me. He is clearly adjusted already when he calls AT and lower..

      I would just keep my 3bet a reasonable amount and print money, I wouldn't go nuts to force him to adjust and not give me money anymore. Doesn't make sense to force someone to play correctly.

      Are you getting mixed up? BB calls AT not BUT. Regardless, it's my philosophy is exploit someone until they adjust. If they can't adjust not exploiting them is a wasted opportunity. If they do adjust, fine, go find an opportunity elsewhere.



      In this case he obviously has no idea what he is doing by not 4betting AK but he has position and unless you have huge postflop edge he will sooner or later own you or he leaves and you no longer make money from him. Neither is a good result imo.

      Had the flop been Axx or Kxx would you not cbet? What's your cbet in a 3bet pot vs him? You hit so rarely that if you bluff postflop often and he tilt calls you in some spots you are just spewing money and his tilt calls become a correct adjustment. Do you want that?
      I would have an easy check/fold with an Ax or Kx board. The whole point is preflop is +EV. Postflop is just a bonus and unless I hit a miracle, I'm gone. Against a guy like that, I'm pretty much solely cbetting for value in a 3bet pot.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Yeah, missed it's BB's call, not BU's.

      @Preflop vs BU: How do you tell when they've adjusted? Once they started adjusting you already lose money on your 3bet pre and if you miss the exact moment when they adjust you keep spewing some money to him.

      After BB calls, he is repping AQ+, AJs, 88+ or so in my view. You have top pair but you can't really bluffcatch. I would bet like I would with all my betting range to be credible and avoid floats because getting floated here sucks: his floating range contains enough value hands + equity to profitably bluff turns. I don't want that. Regarding the rest, with your sizing, it remains true: you don't look like value on flop => more floats => wider bluff range on turn.

      You simply create a problem when you bluff a lot with 2 people left to act. Although one of them could fold often, the other one can adjust and play back, while also being more likely one of them has a hand. This whole exploit until he adjusts because he never does is dated vacuum thinking that doesn't work well in today's games imo.
    • nmipeis
      nmipeis
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2013 Posts: 4
      hey Jules,

      I think that given the stats you have posted your 3bet pre is defs fine and the flop is also pretty standard.

      I think the turn would be getting a little thin for a value bet and checking will induce bets from some of his floats, the one issue i have is that you assigned him a pretty strong range to peel your 3bet and some of the better non pair floats ak/aq could have enough showdown value to not need to bluff the turn. (i have now seen the spoiler and see that villain does not agree with that) but the point still stands that IF he was opting to showdown ak/aq, trying to bluff catch turns would suck when his range is so tight, as it happens he isnt taking that line so its just something to think about that doesnt apply to this villain.

      The river is going to be very read dependant there are lots of people i play against who i could swing either way on a c/f or a c/c, but given the tighish range you have given him i would also air towards a c/f unless some game flow implications dictates otherwise.

      Thanks

      James