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2 NL5 Questions - a moderator would be nice

    • generals007
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      I have two general questions about NL5 game strategy. I'd love it if a mod or someone competent would analyze what i am saying and maybe hold against it - it's based on experience and not at all mathematical.

      NL5, so a pretty loose, always willing-to-call environment. Lots of maniacs, rocks, calling stations.

      I'm playing the exact SHC of the BBS, except that i call pocket pairs from UTG3 as well.

      1. Question
      I am sitting in the small blind with some suited hand like Kc7c or Qc7c. Nothing lower than a Jack anyways, and suited. 4 or more players before me call. What do i do?

      According to the SHC i fold. But aren't there very good odds for me? It's like 2 cent for seeing a flop on a board of 24 cents plus. Although my hand is nowhere connected, although you cannot bet on a high pair you hit because of the horrible kicker and such ... the flushchance should be enough. Additionally we are talking about NL5. The BB is unlikely to raise and if we hit a flush on the flop or a flushdraw and a very very cheap flopcard for the same situation... the NL5 players will pay us off really high if we hit. The never seem to fold their hand.

      So i think you should call a hand like this. Correct? Or incorrect? There's reasons against, of course: the overagressive betting style of the many opponents on the flop if you hit a flushdraw, for example.

      If the thinking is correct and you call here... what other hands would you call the SB with?

      My question sums up to: do you play the SB according to the SHC or can you call weaker hands there, expecting a monster flop for cheap.

      Question 2:
      Let's say you hold something like AQs, raised preflop (4BB) and got called by 3 or 4 opponents (which is a lot). You don't hit a Q, an Ace or a flushdraw at all ... the board is dry or at least not too dangerous and very very low (highest card a nine, let's say). You are first to go.

      Continuation bets should not be played against 3 or 4 opponents, right?
      The potsize now is at 20 BB (80 cents). And again, this is NL5, so really bad thinking of my opponents. Considering i didn't play too agressive and considering i don't have a real maniac in this hand - why not raise something like 16 cents? (right, that is only a fifth of the pot).

      My thinking: I am in NL5 and my opponents probably didn't hit anything. Although they tend to call more often than on higher limits they may be suspicious on my bet because i usually raise much more. If they don't follow the action at all and only look at their own hand it's even better: they see a raise and fold. And my risk is pretty low. 16 cents for a pot of 80 cents is something, right? And even if i get called i have a probable 6 outs of getting the higher hand turn and river.
      I'd check the river in any case, should my opponent call.

      This thinking is probably horrible and wrong, but i want to know why!

      Numerous halfway sophisticated answers would be nice :D

  • 6 replies
    • Balanarm
      Joined: 06.07.2008 Posts: 17,163
      It's ok to call pf with K/Q suited, because if you hit your flush on the flop or turn you can get a lot of action on loose tables, but if you hit pairs don't go with your top pair low kicker or top pair mid kicker too far, donn't be like them, don't play loose postflop.
      AQ must be raised a lot more than 4xBB on these limits, if you think you are way ahead and in position, and continuation bet is absolutely useless on such limit, only vs 1 opponent maybe it's EV+. Bet hard pf with your strong hands and call/raise with high suited cards, but tighten up postflop really hard. Just my 2cents.
    • generals007
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      So basically, that's an agreement on Question 1 and disagreement on Question 2 :D .

      If i am first to play i am not in position :D

      A continuation bet is usually between 1/2 and 1 potsize. My question here is about 1/5th.

      Anyone who can argue me a little bit more here?

    • helemaalnicks
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      Q 1:

      I would have very little handselection in such a situation. Despite the fact that you're oop, you're getting some juicy pot odds. What is important, is how you play postflop. You can call profitably with nearly any two for 2 pair-or-better-value, but it's important not to play to spewy postflop with top pair no kicker for example. Post hands, and judges will review your postflop play, but imo it's ok to call with practically any two for 1:11 pot odds, I would just much 82o, J4o, etc, because they can only hit 2 pairs, not flushes, and no straights either. However, with A2o it's an ez call imo.

      Q 2:

      I wouldn't raise bigger because people call lighter, and I wouldn't put any feeler-phill hellmuth-bets in my arsenal. I wouldn't play too fancy, just get the value if you hit. Note that if the board is very dry, 9-6-2 rainbow for example, it can sometimes be ok to call the flop with your 6 overcard outs. But betting 1/5th pot into four opponents seems kinda useless imo, since the odds are VERY small no-one has hit the flop, and even then, they could still call on very dry boards with 22 for example, which puts you in tough spots if you're oop.
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Helenmaalnicks answered already the both questions and I agree 100% to him.
      Just want to add to question 2:
      Imo most of the players at Nl 5 are calling stations. It doesnt really matter if you bet 1/5 pot or potsize bet, they would call with any pair/any gutshot/and some even with A high hoping to catch A on the turn or river. But at the same time they are quite passive and don´t want usually build a big pot himself. So I´d mostly go with valuebets with my good hands and trying to check down with overcards.
    • generals007
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      First of all, thank you for your answers.


      I'm folding every overpair weak kicker to a bet that exceeds 1/2 potsize postflop (i basically call minraises and that's it) except i know him as a maniac. I call against maniacs, but i only have one real maniac in my buddy list :P .
      Pot odd dependant on a flushdraw of course.

      I don't even call A2o. The only thing i can really hit is 2 pair, which would be good against someone with a stronger Ace and high kicker.
      I think weak Aces are the worst things to play (especially oop). If i hit an ace with them i am usually covered.

      But my main question is answered. Thanks

      So basically what you are saying is to check the situation and just see if there is a bet and then call dependent on my odds with my 6 outs?

    • generals007
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      @ Kaitz

      You're saying the same, so thank you as well.

      I'd love em hit a weak ace though if i have something like AQo/s :P