[NL20-NL50] 50fr 76s BU

    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP2: $75.94 (151.9 bb)
      MP3: $52.54 (105.1 bb)
      CO: $57.07 (114.1 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $50.37 (100.7 bb)
      SB: $50 (100 bb)
      BB: $50 (100 bb)
      UTG+2: $46.18 (92.4 bb)
      MP1: $64.50 (129 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with 7 6
      UTG+2 raises to $1, 4 folds, Hero calls $1, 2 folds

      Flop: ($2.75) 3 K 8 (2 players)
      UTG+2 bets $1.50, Hero raises to $5.25, UTG+2 calls $3.75

      Turn: ($13.25) 6 (2 players)
      UTG+2 checks, Hero checks

      River: ($13.25) 3 (2 players)
      UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $8.39, UTG+2 calls $8.39

      Results:
      $30.03 pot ($1.65 rake)
      Final Board: 3 K 8 6 3
      Hero showed 7 6 and lost (-$14.64 net)
      UTG+2 showed T T and won $28.38 ($13.74 net)

      VPIP: 39, PFR: 16, 3B: 11, AF: 2,8, Hands: 51

      Sadly didn't have any sample on him.
      On the turn I was tempted to bet but I wasn't really sure about FE, since he called me on flop.
      So I waited to see what was his move on river, and he checked, I thought a lot and due to the action I put him on something like A8, low PPs, and even a rare FD, why not, and in the worst case a K.
      Took my chance and bluff bet, also because of the 3, because of my weird raise flop and check behind turn it could be a reasonable thing.
      But he called.

      Only later the WTSD stat grew up to be around 38 -.-
      Knowing that I wouldn't have bluffed.

      Turns out he WAS on the expected PP, but he didn't find a fold <.< damn...

      Thoughts?
  • 9 replies
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      Hi,

      So why are you bluffing the river? What better hands fold?

      serverm07
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by serverm07
      Hi,

      So why are you bluffing the river? What better hands fold?

      serverm07
      I thought I explained it D:
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      You are right I'm a fish :f_p:

      Anyways back to the hand.

      Preflop is fine

      Flop is fine, I think raise/fold as a semi bluff is ok here.

      River however I think is a very bad bet because I think he always calls with 8x+ with the action we took, basically the way fish think is, "All draws misssed, click call"

      So that brings us back to the turn, if you are trying to get him to fold 8x, 99-QQ then the turn is one of the best bluff cards for us because it gives us more equity.

      With that being said if the turn is like 2d for example then nothing changes and we should just check back to realize our equity but when we turn a 6 or 7 or 9 we can bet again as a semi bluff to get his 8x part of the range to fold and we have plenty of equity vs Kx.

      Hope that makes sense

      serverm07.
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by serverm07
      You are right I'm a fish :f_p:

      Anyways back to the hand.

      Preflop is fine

      Flop is fine, I think raise/fold as a semi bluff is ok here.

      River however I think is a very bad bet because I think he always calls with 8x+ with the action we took, basically the way fish think is, "All draws misssed, click call"

      So that brings us back to the turn, if you are trying to get him to fold 8x, 99-QQ then the turn is one of the best bluff cards for us because it gives us more equity.

      With that being said if the turn is like 2d for example then nothing changes and we should just check back to realize our equity but when we turn a 6 or 7 or 9 we can bet again as a semi bluff to get his 8x part of the range to fold and we have plenty of equity vs Kx.

      Hope that makes sense

      serverm07.
      Yeah it does make sense, and I'd do this normally.
      But I thought I had more chance to make a fish fold on the river than turn, since they are so curious D:
      So thx for enlightening me! Next time I'll pwn :D

      One question tho, do I get it in if he shoves to my turn bet?
      I know that putting him on a range and doing equity calculations would answer, but on the tables I don't have so much time, so by heart would you call or find a fold? [let's say my bet was around 10 to 11 euros]
      This was another reason why I didn't go for the bet, I did want to see river (but I shouldn't have bluffed it! poorly made plan!)
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      I think if I bet the turn I would probably talk myself into a call here with a pair and fd cus I'm a station. The best thing to do is given him few different ranges, I would do 3, one very tight, one very loose and one in between for jamming on the turn and see what your equity looks like. It's good to do it off the tables so then one the tables you will know if you have enough equity or not since you have done the hw.

      As far as whether it's better to bet turn or check back, I think it's pretty close but I favor betting because like I said we turned more equity, we can get value from other fds possibly, and we are last to act on the river which is awesome.

      However if you do decide to check which is not terrible and is fine then betting river is a mistake when we have showdown value with a pair. And like said fish just love to call when draws miss.
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by serverm07
      I think if I bet the turn I would probably talk myself into a call here with a pair and fd cus I'm a station. The best thing to do is given him few different ranges, I would do 3, one very tight, one very loose and one in between for jamming on the turn and see what your equity looks like. It's good to do it off the tables so then one the tables you will know if you have enough equity or not since you have done the hw.

      As far as whether it's better to bet turn or check back, I think it's pretty close but I favor betting because like I said we turned more equity, we can get value from other fds possibly, and we are last to act on the river which is awesome.

      However if you do decide to check which is not terrible and is fine then betting river is a mistake when we have showdown value with a pair. And like said fish just love to call when draws miss.
      How does this look?


      Simulating a bet of $10 on turn, my calculations lead me to ~32% required equity to call, therefore no call. (and his range here would be tighter I believe)

      Did I do it right?
      Would you double check math?
      I always do a lot of confusion still on these ones @_@
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      Yep you did it right and we need 32% equity to call. However you gave him a very tight range for shoving and also forgot to include KK. Try playing around a bit with it and few hands like AQhh that might spazz and see where your equity gets to.

      Without even doing any calculations I kind of knew it would close here. However I think if I give him a few combos of fds and discount few sets that he might reraise on the flop then I think it's close enough to make it a call for me.

      + I get some reads on him + I might tilt him, + I might win a stack + I hate folding.

      But if you are not comfortable with losing a stack, think his range is that tight and you don't have enough equity then obv just bet/fold. So the more reads on him the better + it would be helpful to know his PFR from EP. Is he positionally aware or not? Personally I have seen stuff like A3hh here and also seen stuff like KK in the past in this spot. Like I said all depends on the reads we have.

      serverm07.
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by serverm07
      Yep you did it right and we need 32% equity to call. However you gave him a very tight range for shoving and also forgot to include KK. Try playing around a bit with it and few hands like AQhh that might spazz and see where your equity gets to.

      Without even doing any calculations I kind of knew it would close here. However I think if I give him a few combos of fds and discount few sets that he might reraise on the flop then I think it's close enough to make it a call for me.

      + I get some reads on him + I might tilt him, + I might win a stack + I hate folding.

      But if you are not comfortable with losing a stack, think his range is that tight and you don't have enough equity then obv just bet/fold. So the more reads on him the better + it would be helpful to know his PFR from EP. Is he positionally aware or not? Personally I have seen stuff like A3hh here and also seen stuff like KK in the past in this spot. Like I said all depends on the reads we have.

      serverm07.
      Yeah sad part is that it was a new fish that joined, died, and left.
      I had something like ~30 hands on him when this happened, so I didn't know any of that. xD

      Definitely forgot KK dunno why.

      But thx for the insight! <3
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      No problem bud.