[NL20-NL50] Nl16 Sh 99

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,150
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.16(BB) Replayer
      Hero ($16)
      BB ($15.02)
      UTG ($3.41)
      CO ($32.63)
      BTN ($20.87)

      Dealt to Hero 9:club: 9:diamond:

      fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.32, Hero calls $0.24, BB calls $0.16

      FLOP ($0.96) 7:club: K:heart: 2:diamond:

      Hero bets $0.72, BB folds, BTN folds

      Hero shows 9:club: 9:diamond:

      Hero wins $0.92

      BTN: 18/12 34 hands
      BB: 40/19/2.3, fcbet 88, flop agg. req 7% (27), turn ag freq. 31 (16), 81 hand

      BB is fit/fold type

      I donkbet here to have easiest play. But I diskused with another player and he says I turn this in to a bluff.
      For me its not easy to call a cbet in 3way pot here. But BTN could cbet light, since BB is fit/fold and I am not calling station as well.

      What I am doing on the turn if I call? c/f? Without reads I cannot be sure if he will barrel or not.
  • 5 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,908
      I don't flat SB vs BU with players that play many hands in BB. I don't want to be OOP 3way so I play 3bet/fold in SB about 90% of the time, 100% as a default, just readjust depending on who BB is.

      Leading does turn it into a bluff sort of but it also ensures you realize your equity. Check/calling has less playability vs BU's range. I strongly suggest preflop 3bet because you almost never have a good spot postflop from SB vs wide BU open.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,150
      • 10.01.2013, 17:56
      • This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by SPeedFANat1c: 10.01.2013 18:02.
      But I heard different thing from another coach with those medium pairs like 88-TT.
      When I 3bet and he calls - I am having also tough time. On the board like this I have to cbet or not if I 3bet preflop?

      I am not getting value from weaker hands when I cbet, but also its hard to c/c and bluffcatch with this hand. He can easily have KQ, JJ, TT in his calling 3bet range.

      Plus - its even better usually to invide the fish in the pot, than to be heads up in 3bet pot with reg.

      If BB is 3beting a lot, then I would be more inclinded to 3bet myself.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,908
      If you call 88-TT and QJs, KQs you have a narrow and defined range, easy to play against that.

      It's probably not a -EV call pre here in a vacuum but if you do it long term and move up, you'll get owned A LOT.

      I disagree with the fish part: extremely often it's better to have the fish in, true. But there are a few specific spots where it isn't, one of which is when the fish will have a super wide range, you will be OOP and are looking only to hit. This is because you rely on hitting AND implied odds. If you hit OOP it's hard to build a pot and stack the fish anyway, while on quite a few boards you have reverse implied odds with your set vs BUs wide range of 'anything connected'. He will have just about all straights and flushes in his range postflop while at the same time a lot of air that doesn't give you value when you flop your set.

      Set mining works when people pay you off. Wide ranges are too weak to pay you off.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,150
      • 10.01.2013, 20:25
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by SPeedFANat1c: 10.01.2013 20:25.
      Ok, lets say I 3bet, so this is the flop in 3bet pot.

      He should call 3bet with something like this:

      TT-55,AQs-ATs,KJs+,AQo,KQo

      So my 3bet is for value with 99. OK I blelieved in that even earlier.

      On the flop - I have to cbet. But my cbet is for fold equity from worse hands. Better hands are mostly calling. Maybe only TT is folding. JJ might call, or JJ might also 4bet preflop.

      So practically I bet to make worse hands to fold and I pay for pairs.

      If they call - give up turn most likely. Because I am beat.

      Is there another option on flop?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,908
      • 10.01.2013, 21:10
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by EmanuelC16: 10.01.2013 21:11.
      You can obviously check flop sometimes. It's just too opponent based to say 'do this on this flop after you did the other thing preflop'. It never works that way.

      Apart from that, you are playing a range, so when you bet you can have AQ, AJ, AK, KK, AA, KQ, T9s, etc. You don't have just 99.

      Whether you cbet or not depends on what he does vs a cbet and what he does vs a check with what parts of his range. Cbetting should be +EV here but not necessarily the best EV. The range you gave him for calling 3bets seems awfully tight for these positions btw.

      If we work off just the maths of betting to win the pot if you bet 1/2 pot you need him to fold 1/3 of his range. If he folds Ahigh you make a profit just from his folds.

      LE: Not betting means you win the pot less than that unless you have certain reads to manouver turns and rivers so betting should be higher EV without reads regardless of your hand.