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stupid attempt of a thin valuebet?

    • ninjakalz
      Joined: 07.04.2010 Posts: 433
      pfr is a fish and i figured it is totally ok to just flat my hand and invite the blinds from this position. the guy calling in bb is also a fish.

      pfr stats: vpip 59 pfr 26 and c-bet 67.
      fold to c-bet 57. he bets his valuehands very big.

      bb stats: vpip 61 pfr 16 3b 2.1
      fold to c-bet 50. he donk bets all sets.

      so my bet on flop is pretty much to take the pot down. when both calls i figured they could have second or third pair or flush/straight-draws, also 7799TTJJ. But i think prf would bet TT JJ one street to try and take the pot down.

      should i bet turn aswell and should i bet river here to get called by worse pairs. since they are both fishes i could se them call all hands like a 6x or even 5x. and if i should bet, bigger or smaller bet? i usually make these something like a third of the pot to give them better odds.

      $0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
      5 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by

      UTG ($491.18) 491bb
      CO ($212.85) 213bb
      hero (BTN) ($96.08) 96bb
      SB ($188.07) 188bb
      BB ($274.74) 275bb

      Pre-Flop: ($1.50, 5 players) hero is BTN 8:heart: 8:diamond:
      UTG raises to $3, 1 fold, hero calls $3, 1 fold, BB calls $3

      Flop: 6:spade: Q:spade: 5:diamond: ($9.50, 3 players)
      BB checks, UTG checks, hero bets $7.12, BB calls $7.12, UTG calls $7.12

      Turn: Q:club: ($30.09, 3 players)
      BB checks, UTG checks, hero checks

      River: 3:diamond: ($30.09, 3 players)
      BB checks, UTG checks, hero bets $15.43, BB folds, UTG folds

      Final Pot: $14.66
      hero shows
      8:heart: 8:diamond:
  • 5 replies
    • Saren113
      Joined: 06.03.2009 Posts: 2,973
      I would rather barrel in this spot and check back river as the board is pretty cordinated.
    • ThePirateSword
      Joined: 08.07.2012 Posts: 541
      after they checked twice it's ok to bet , but don't expect a call
    • zumpar
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185
      ok im gonna give u my stupid NL25 insight:

      UTG never has a hand here so he is c/f 90% of the time, BB is fishy enough to c/c hands like 6x/maybe 5x/some gutshots or whatever crappy hands

      so im thinking ur ahead here like 80+% of the time

      i like the flop bet & sizing, but i'd definitely barrel turn here, once they both call and reevaluate river

      as played, betting river is the best option imo

      as i said, UTG never has a Q+ here and BB would definitely b river with a Q, hence u can vbet vs 6x,77, some A3ss or maybe even worse if UTG is a big leveller
    • MatejM47
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      I would bet the flop for the same reasons you mentioned.

      The turn check is absolutely horrible. You rank to have the best hand here most of the time and you must bet it for value and protection.

      Lets see what can happen in this spot vs different part of their range's.

      #1 When you are beat you will lose 1 bet most of the time (either by betting the turn or calling blank rivers)

      #2 You have the best hand and you want to get value. The fish is going to call 6x or 5x on the turn just as often as he will on the river so in this case it doesn't really matter. Against draws you are however more likely to get value on the turn then you are on the river.

      And even if they fold or one of them folds the turn thats a huge win for you even when you do have the best hand. Lets say your up against total air like 98o gutter and AKo high that both made a light peel on the flop. If you manage to fold out those to hands thats a massive win for you since if you check your actually going to lose the pot 32% of the time. If one of them holds a FD to go with their hand your actually only 50% to win against 2 unpaired hands that are most likely folding the turn.

      Basically you want to get this pot HU since then your equity is way better and you get more value against his draws in case he calls.
    • ninjakalz
      Joined: 07.04.2010 Posts: 433
      ok! thanks for the feedback! After reading your comments and thinking about it i should ofc barrel the turn aswell!