[NL2-NL10] NL10SH 44 easy play?

    • Alan883
      Alan883
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      Just to good odds for calling preflop right?

      PKR, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $17.19 (171.9 bb)
      SB: $11.46 (114.6 bb)
      BB: $10 (100 bb)
      Hero (UTG): $17.90 (179 bb)
      MP: $1.51 (15.1 bb)
      CO: $6.10 (61 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4 4
      Hero raises to $0.40, MP calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40, BTN folds, SB raises to $1.40, BB folds, Hero calls $1.00, MP raises to $1.51, CO folds, SB calls $0.11, Hero calls $0.11

      Flop: ($5.03) 5 4 Q (3 players)
      SB bets $2.80, Hero calls $2.80

      Turn: ($10.63) 3 (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $4, SB calls $4

      River: ($18.63) J (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $4, SB calls $3.15 and is all-in

      Results:
      $24.93 pot ($2 rake)
      Final Board: 5 4 Q 3 J
      SB showed K A and lost (-$11.46 net)
      Hero showed 4 4 and won $22.93 ($11.47 net)
      MP showed K 5 and lost (-$1.51 net)
  • 7 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi Alan,

      Preflop: Since both MP (especially) and CO are short I don't like our preflop call at all. I would fold there.

      As played the rest of the hand looks fine and somehow we suckered the guy in to calling with A high (which we shouldn't expect in the first place unless we know he is a station).

      Either way I would still fold to his 3-bet.

      One simple exercise you can do here is that preflop we most likely have to invest another 1.11 which is 11 big blinds. When we miss, 7 out of 8 times we lose a total of 77 BBs (or so) so imagine what needs to happen when we hit just to breakeven. Don't forget that when we hit we don't always win a big pot nor do we actually always win the hand.
    • Alan883
      Alan883
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      Thank you.

      I was thinking about folding but by myself went to conclusion that i will win big when i hit and pot was quite large already and i was expecting also other to call for set value or maybe another reason :f_biggrin: .

      Also villains squeeze was pretty weak.

      So somehow we should never call for set value those hands when there was 3bet?

      If this is not perfect situation to do so there is no other situation to do that :f_cool:

      Thank for your effort. I appreciate it
    • Philfox1985
      Philfox1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2010 Posts: 934
      The general rule for calling for set value is the 'call-20' rule.

      The bet you call would have to be less than 1/20ths of your opponents stack. This is because while you hit a set on the flop about 1/8 times, you will stuggle to get paid off big every time.

      Personally I bend that rule a little if I'm 3 bet, and will stretch it to around 'call-16' at the absolute limit, this is because its more likely your opponent will pay you off when you hit.

      If your calling with lower odds you will need to win pots when you miss your set to make up for it. Thats not too easy with a hand like 4's which isn't very playable post-flop.
    • Alan883
      Alan883
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      Yeah but call20 stands for FR. It is not applicable on SH tables.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Alan883
      Yeah but call20 stands for FR. It is not applicable on SH tables.
      You do need to call at least 10 BB to see the flop here. You don't need a rule to see that you lose a TON of money when you don't hit (at least 70 BB on average).

      Then add the times when you hit and lose the entire stack and then the times when you hit and barely get paid off and you can see that you can't possibly have a super profitable spot.

      So in 3-bet pots the amount he 3-bets you to is key.

      If for example you open to 3x, and he makes 8x and someone else calls (that's not super short) then we only have to invest 5 BB to see the flop. So not too bad.
    • Philfox1985
      Philfox1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2010 Posts: 934
      Talk me through why you believe it would be applicable to FR, but not SH?

      If you flop an under-pair to the board in a bloated pot, is it any easier to play profitably?
    • Alan883
      Alan883
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      Because in SH game is it not that simple. First of all you will become exploitable. You will miss board 7 out of 8 times plus when you hit it will be difficult to extract money lets say OOP and even IP since game is more loose here and your opponent doesn't have made hand to often.

      If you directly follow the rule you should then call every 3bb and 4bb OR but it is just not that simple. That will start to blow off our money on SH tables.