[NL2-NL10] QT bvb

    • yaxkukmian
      yaxkukmian
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.12.2007 Posts: 2,020
      no hud, speed, unknown villain.

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      Hero ($10.71)
      BB ($6.56)
      UTG ($10.82)
      UTG+1 ($10.05)
      CO ($22.90)
      BTN ($5.36)

      Dealt to Hero Q:spade: T:diamond:

      fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20

      FLOP ($0.60) 3:spade: Q:heart: K:spade:

      Hero bets $0.35, BB calls $0.35

      TURN ($1.30) 3:spade: Q:heart: K:spade: 4:diamond:

      Hero checks, BB bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

      RIVER ($2.50) 3:spade: Q:heart: K:spade: 4:diamond: 4:spade:

      Hero checks, BB bets $1.10, Hero calls $1.10

      BB shows 2:heart: A:club:
      (Pre 54%, Flop 12.5%, Turn 15.9%)

      Hero shows Q:spade: T:diamond:
      (Pre 46%, Flop 87.5%, Turn 84.1%)

      Hero wins $4.39


      Can we beat any Qx hands on the river or are there only bluffs to beat in his range? His amount looks like vbet. Also barreling turn and river seems strong. I know it's very hard to say anything without stats but let's take it as a theory example. Calling turn is ok and folding river is best?
  • 7 replies
    • Dracsharp
      Dracsharp
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2010 Posts: 2,478
      Against unknown go

      b/f flop & turn
      c/f river

      You have no idea if he would bluff


      + and bet bigger least 2/3 pot
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi.

      Flop: Check or bet are both acceptable options.
      Turn: I think we should c/c like you did cos we are ahead of flush draws and straight draws
      River: This is probably a check/fold.

      Only thing you beat here is busted straight draws like JT T9 J9 AJ AT. Perhaps you can beat enough of those combos to warrant a c/c. I'm not too sure about that.

      "Can we beat any Qx hands on the river?"

      I doubt he bets QX on the Turn

      " or are there only bluffs to beat in his range?"

      Mostly straight draws which miss. Whether he turns Ace highs like AJ or AT into a bluff, I cannot say for sure without more info.

      "His amount looks like vbet"

      This really depends on the player. But remember that with better pot odds we don't have to win so often.

      In conclusion I think I would be more inclined to c/c the River with a stronger hand (KX) or if the draws missed. I think your c/c is way too loose, it just means that you are just c/c-ing this river every single time which is kind of exploitable. And remember that you are making this play vs an unknown and IMO that is super spewy.

      Thanks.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Originally posted by Dracsharp
      Against unknown go

      b/f flop & turn
      c/f river

      I definitely disagree with betting turn with QT. There is no value to be had. Perhaps if we had AQ and we thought he still calls with many QX as well as draws, then I might agree with this statement

      Originally posted by Dracsharp

      You have no idea if he would bluff


      That's true.
    • yaxkukmian
      yaxkukmian
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.12.2007 Posts: 2,020
      Originally posted by mbml
      And remember that you are making this play vs an unknown and IMO that is super spewy.
      :f_eek: what would you say for plays I call spewy :f_p:
      Agree with your arguments and I do call to lightly in situations like this. More time I post it and read this is bad I have it in mind and try not to repeat it next time I play.

      Tnx you both for your comments. :)
    • Dracsharp
      Dracsharp
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2010 Posts: 2,478
      Originally posted by mbml
      Originally posted by Dracsharp
      Against unknown go

      b/f flop & turn
      c/f river

      I definitely disagree with betting turn with QT. There is no value to be had. Perhaps if we had AQ and we thought he still calls with many QX as well as draws, then I might agree with this statement

      Originally posted by Dracsharp

      You have no idea if he would bluff


      That's true.
      Yes but you suggested c/c the turn and usual players probably bet stronger than call so explain that to me, since you already agreed we don't know he would bluff or not.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Originally posted by Dracsharp
      Originally posted by mbml
      Originally posted by Dracsharp
      Against unknown go

      b/f flop & turn
      c/f river

      I definitely disagree with betting turn with QT. There is no value to be had. Perhaps if we had AQ and we thought he still calls with many QX as well as draws, then I might agree with this statement

      Originally posted by Dracsharp

      You have no idea if he would bluff


      That's true.
      Yes but you suggested c/c the turn and usual players probably bet stronger than call so explain that to me, since you already agreed we don't know he would bluff or not.
      To value bet, we need to beat his calling range on average
      To bluff catch, we are being offered some pot odds (usually between 25-33% for a 50-100% pot size bet) and we only need to win 25-33% of the time.

      Therefore, it's often easier to have a hand strong enough to bluff catch than to have a hand strong enough to value bet.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Originally posted by yaxkukmian
      Originally posted by mbml
      And remember that you are making this play vs an unknown and IMO that is super spewy.
      :f_eek: what would you say for plays I call spewy :f_p:
      Agree with your arguments and I do call to lightly in situations like this. More time I post it and read this is bad I have it in mind and try not to repeat it next time I play.

      Tnx you both for your comments. :)
      One suggestion I would make when playing against unknowns is to divide up your range into various portions. When you want to bluff catch, use the upper portions of your range (in this case KX) to call the River, and fold the lower portions of your range (in this case QX).