[NL2-NL10] NL2 AJs IP

    • srna10
      srna10
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2010 Posts: 345
      Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      UTG+1: $5.22 (261 bb) VPIP: 88, PFR: 9, 3B: 5, AF: 2.1, Hands: 108
      UTG+2: $6.22 (311 bb)
      MP1: $1 (50 bb)
      MP2: $1.95 (97.5 bb)
      MP3: $0.80 (40 bb) VPIP: 13, PFR: 4, 3B: 0, AF: 0.3, Hands: 69
      CO: $6.36 (318 bb) VPIP: 50, PFR: 12, 3B: 13, AF: 1.6, Hands: 125
      Hero (BTN): $2.64 (132 bb) VPIP: 17, PFR: 10, 3B: 3, AF: 2.0
      SB: $1.83 (91.5 bb) VPIP: 10, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 3.5, Hands: 159
      BB: $3.08 (154 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with J A
      UTG+1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, MP3 raises to $0.08, CO calls $0.08, Hero calls $0.08, SB calls $0.07, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $0.06

      maybe i should raise 3 bet PF but i decided to be a little bit tight at this table so i just call ....

      Flop: ($0.42) A 3 T (5 players)
      SB bets $0.20, UTG+1 calls $0.20, MP3 calls $0.20, CO calls $0.20, [color=red]Hero ????? [/COLOR]

      what is hero's action? after sb donk bet and calls by UTG+1, MP3 and CO my first thougt was to ship it. UTG and CO were loose and played almost every hand so my range is pretty good agianst them, while SB and MP3 would raise PF if they had any decent hand. although it was a family pot i saw my self in very good position with TPGK with nut FD so i just shove it .......

      Hero raises to $2.56 and is all-in, SB folds, UTG+1 calls $2.36, 2 folds

      Turn: ($6.14) 5 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($6.14) 4 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results:
      $6.14 pot ($0.21 rake)
      Final Board: A 3 T 5 4
      UTG+1 showed 7 2 and won $5.93 ($3.29 net)
      MP3 mucked and lost (-$0.28 net)
      CO mucked and lost (-$0.28 net)
      Hero mucked J A and lost (-$2.64 net)
      SB mucked and lost (-$0.28 net)


      unfortunately, loose fish who was chasing and catching draws all session got himself straight and won the pot, in the end after he reached 500bb he went broke in 10 min.

      q: did i overplayed my cards at flop in family pot, was their any other way to play this hand?
  • 12 replies
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Hello,

      Preflop we can fold here considering that MP3 is very tight preflop.

      On the flop I wouldn't mind both shoving and calling.
      I think I like shoving better considering all the dead money in the pot already so I think you played this one good.

      Best,
      Plamen
    • Th334
      Th334
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2012 Posts: 971
      Hi guys,

      Why are we shoving again? For value? Our shove looks so strong 5-handed, that I doubt that weaker pairs are calling it.

      Plamen, what do you mean by "considering the amount of dead money"? If we just call, dead money won't disappear, will they? Our hand doesn't need protection, imo, so we could just call :f_rolleyes:
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Well, we don't min to win the pot right here, do we? And even if we get called only by two pair+ we still have decent equity.

      Also, given the fact that both UTG and CO look very fishy we can expect a call with Ax there from them.
    • srna10
      srna10
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2010 Posts: 345
      Originally posted by kymupa
      Hello,

      Preflop we can fold here considering that MP3 is very tight preflop.
      after CO call i decided to flat call with AJs on BTN, otherwise i would 3bet or fold....

      On the flop I wouldn't mind both shoving and calling.
      I think I like shoving better considering all the dead money in the pot already so I think you played this one good.
      i did shove because of dead money, maybe call would be better to extract more value but i decide to ship and hope that UTG or CO would call and stack off...
    • srna10
      srna10
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2010 Posts: 345
      Originally posted by Th334
      Hi guys,

      Why are we shoving again? For value? Our shove looks so strong 5-handed, that I doubt that weaker pairs are calling it.
      in this situation my thought was to make better hands fold and worst hand to call and getting value from UTG and CO.
    • Th334
      Th334
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2012 Posts: 971
      Originally posted by kymupa
      Well, we don't min to win the pot right here, do we? And even if we get called only by two pair+ we still have decent equity.

      Also, given the fact that both UTG and CO look very fishy we can expect a call with Ax there from them.
      Hm, I don't think that with a TP and a FD our hand is vulnerable, so we want to push all hands out of the pot and win it right here. Stronger never folds, and weaker doesn't have a ton of equity to improve. Like KT might hit a K on the turn, but even then the K of hearts will win us his stack.

      We just take away the possibility of some wrong value bets and bluffs on the turn, no?

      If fish calls all-in on the flop with A9, I think it will stack on most turns as well.
    • Th334
      Th334
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2012 Posts: 971
      Originally posted by srna10
      in this situation my thought was to make better hands fold and worst hand to call and getting value from UTG and CO.
      AK doesn't fold. AQ thinks that you will like never have AK here. 2P like AT and sets are stacking all day long here on a dry-ish board, there's no reason for them to think they are behind, especially with good odds.
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Well, even if they only continue with better hands, our move will be +EV here considering that there are 60bb in the pot already, and the only one who showed strength is SB, right?
      And when we get called by those we still have outs to improve.

      I think that calling will be good as well since we have position. As I said in my first post, I wouldn't mind both calling and shoving, but I do think that shoving is better.
    • Th334
      Th334
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2012 Posts: 971
      Originally posted by kymupa
      Well, even if they only continue with better hands, our move will be +EV here considering that there are 60bb in the pot already, and the only one who showed strength is SB, right?
      And when we get called by those we still have outs to improve.
      I'm not sure that I'm with you, Plamen :) Mathematically, a value bet is never +EV if it gets called only by stronger hands, no? It would contradict the definition of a value bet. We are still an underdog here against AQ, and even more so against sets.

      Anyway, I'm not saying that it's -EV to shove here, I just don't understand why you would prefer to stack here rather than to call and induce some more bets on the turn. F.e., if a heart hits, we stack with all flushes, but maybe they fold the flop. Also, as I said, some second pairs might improve to 2P, but still lose to our flush.

      Thanks.
    • srna10
      srna10
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2010 Posts: 345
      Originally posted by Th334
      Originally posted by srna10
      in this situation my thought was to make better hands fold and worst hand to call and getting value from UTG and CO.
      AK doesn't fold. AQ thinks that you will like never have AK here. 2P like AT and sets are stacking all day long here on a dry-ish board, there's no reason for them to think they are behind, especially with good odds.
      that's correct in HU or 3-handed pot but in family pot with another 4 guys i don't want get in action with MP3 or SB and their range, and don't think i could get any value from them. after MP3 flat call for me calling wasn't option so my line was raise, maybe it should be call and see what turn bring, but i decided to ship it.
    • srna10
      srna10
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2010 Posts: 345
      Anyway, I'm not saying that it's -EV to shove here, I just don't understand why you would prefer to stack here rather than to call and induce some more bets on the turn. F.e., if a heart hits, we stack with all flushes, but maybe they fold the flop. Also, as I said, some second pairs might improve to 2P, but still lose to our flush.

      Thanks.
      i don't think it would be any action on turn, SB with his range loses strenght with 4 guys after him and don' think he would bet on turn, UTG loose fish bet bb in this situation, MP3 would raise flop if he hit trips. so induce bet or bluffs would be only from UTG and CO which was my first intention to do, get them to stack off.
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Well, as I said in some of my previous posts, I doubt that we are only called by better here.

      Since we are up against some fishes they could easily call here with weaker Ax or FD, which they can decide to fold on the turn.

      Also, if we shove here we skip the turn play so it would be easier to play the hand.

      In conclusion, I think both options are fine. Each of them has its pros and cons and I wouldn't say that if you call here it's wrong.