[NL2-NL10] Sh10 - SB with 99

    • ThatGuyMatt
      ThatGuyMatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,758
      My flop bet was on the smaller side but there was very little to be afraid so felt betting small on such a board is acceptable?

      The Turn, Villain range can easily include 22,33,77,88 as well as 45s but I doubt he would play his 45s this way on the turn, if it was a Semi-bluff I'd expect a larger bet around $4 perhaps? Apart from set he could also have TT/JJ So I can't figure out any hand that I'm beating.

      Would like to see what your though process on this is :)

      Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $18.01 (180.1 bb)
      Hero (SB): $27.50 (275 bb)
      BB: $13.26 (132.6 bb)
      UTG: $10 (100 bb)
      MP: $6.45 (64.5 bb)
      CO: $35.91 (359.1 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 9
      3 folds, BTN raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.80, BB calls $0.70, BTN calls $0.50

      Flop: ($2.40) 3 2 7 (3 players)
      Hero bets $1.50, BB calls $1.50, BTN folds

      Turn: ($5.40) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $3, Hero folds

      Results:
      $5.40 pot ($0.24 rake)
      Final Board: 3 2 7 8
      Hero mucked 9 9 and lost (-$2.30 net)
      BB mucked and won $5.16 ($2.86 net)
  • 7 replies
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Hello,

      Is 3betting with 99 here standard for you? I actually prefer calling here.
      If we go for a 3bet here, I think we definitely have to make it bigger - like $1.1-1.2.

      On the flop cbetting is kind of close considering that we are OOP and we are three-way. I actually wouldn't mind giving up here considering that if we get called we will have hard time on the later streets.
      About the sizing - it's good. It's a 3bet pot, so the SPR is smaller and you don't need to bet big in 3bet pots.

      Once you get called, I think check/folding on the turn is good.
      We are hardly getting called by worse here if we bet and I think that if we check here he will be happy to check back with his worse hands so check/folding here is fine.

      Overall, I think the main mistake is preflop. We make a big pot with a hand that we won't feel comfortable playing such a big pot OOP.

      Best,
      Plamen
    • ThatGuyMatt
      ThatGuyMatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,758
      Originally posted by kymupa
      Hello,

      Is 3betting with 99 here standard for you? I actually prefer calling here.
      If we go for a 3bet here, I think we definitely have to make it bigger - like $1.1-1.2.
      Thanks for the review, and it wasn't even up for long, damn! :f_thumbsup:

      I've recently watched Pleno's Freebie @ NL10 and I'm adjusting my game to some of the style within it, I've 3Bet small for a while now yes.

      Taken from the Comments of Pleno's video:

      #2 Farmarchist, 19 Sep 12 10:29
      Hey, great vid pleno :) .

      1Q: Why the 3bet sizes? You 3bet a $0.30 openraise to $0.80. Aren't you giving correct setmine odds?

      #4 pleno1, 19 Sep 12 10:54
      @2

      Hey, thanks for the nice words

      - at smaller stakes players wont understand reverse implied odds as much and thus they see "wow less than 3x, gotta call now, value innit" ;) This means they will defend closely to what they raise with a lot of the time. You then can think a little further on the other side of the coin and that if they fold now they jsut go to a new hand straight away and many will just fold too much. [/spolier]

      To summarise

      1) We get them to call out of position, without initiative with weak/capped ranges

      2) We give ourself a great price to 3bet bluff

      Furthermore, pot to stack ratio isn't so important as we can just bet big on flop/turn and generally in 3bet pots they won't fold if they connect to the board.


      If I decide on a call this could leave BB to squeeze and put me into a terrible position. At least when I play it this way I have a chance to take initiative within the hand even if I am oop?

      If the initial rise was from UTG/MP and I had position on him then I'd often just call.
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Thanks for the review, and it wasn't even up for long, damn!
      This is how we roll. :D

      Now to the question:

      I see your point her but I think there are a few possible mistakes here.
      From what I saw in the comments (the ones given in spoiler) this sizing is about when we are IP, not OOP.

      I think it's bad when we are OOP and especially when we are deep because we are giving him quite decent odds to call and play IP against us and make our play postflop quite hard.
      Also, being deep should lean us towards raising more in order to make SPR smaller postflop rather than raising smaller.

      I do understand your concerns about BB going for a squeeze here, but then - is he really squeeze happy? If not, we can just call and expect people not to put pressure on us too much.
      Also, calling here and folding against aggression from BB is a "smaller" mistake to me rather than 3betting with a hand that could probably put us in a very though spot postflop.

      So, in conclusion, I think that calling here is a better option than 3betting, but if we go for a 3bet we should go for a bigger sizing.

      What do you think about this?
    • ThatGuyMatt
      ThatGuyMatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,758
      Ok, I see your point, I think throughout the video he makes the same sizing (My brain is like a sieve) but maybe this is due to his ability to outplay post-flop.

      Ok, so in general the Raise isn't exactly wrong but if I were to raise and want to take initive it's best to only do this when I know BB can be aggressive and squeeze happy; The bet should be more around $1 minimum and only when oop and larger if we are both deep.
      Only $0.80 when IP or their stack sizes are <80bb size?

      So lets say we all called pre for $0.30, why would say this is a better option - are we just going to set mine here and fold to any bets when a 10+ appears?

      I'd probably lead out with $0.60, BB calls. with that board in a smaller pot I'd probably continue betting out with around $1.50 to protect against the draws (I'd fold to a re-raise), Then check/fold the river, maybe call a small bet dependant on the river.
      Maybe a Check/Call on the turn would be a better line, then check/fold, unless villain checks back on the turn then I check and induce a bluff from missed draws on the river?

      I have to say, this is the most thought I think I've put into a single hand, Highfive!
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Well, I would only make it $0.8 against middle-stackers and short stackers which we know that won't call preflop.

      When we call here preflop we are of course not playing only for set value.
      The good thing is that he has a wider range plus he won't cbet all the time so we can pick up the pot a lot of the times plus we have a decent made hand on most of the flops.

      I think that if we lead on this flop we have to bet the turn as well and then check/fold the river.

      I don't really recommend you to go into those check/call spots without information since you are likely to have a trouble guessing what kind of hands he bets and from my personal experience I usually end up paying them off.

      What do you think about check/calling the flop though? The board is quite dry and I expect him to bet his whole range here so I think it could be a good idea.
    • ThatGuyMatt
      ThatGuyMatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,758
      I can see how a check/call on the flop could be a nice play, but I'm always concerned that I'm giving villain a chance to hit a free card with his numerous broadways.

      Maybe this is an example of how I should adapt to different players, if he is a Reg then it's best to check/call to to try and get value from his cbets, but if he were a fish then I could lead out and he may even call these hands because he has some nice looking high cards in his eyes.

      So we should generally only go into check/fold on the flop to allow villain to cbet his wide range and then see if its viable to take down on the turn instead of check/calling again? Then we donk the turn to see where where we are and fold to any more bets?
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Well it quite much depends on what kind of opponents we are up against.

      Against aggressive opponents who tend to barrel a lot I'm check/calling both flop and turn and probably river.
      Against people who are often barreling the flop but rarely the turn we can choose call flop donk turn line.

      Overall, quite different situations. And against unknowns I prefer to check/call flop and turn and reevaluate the river.