[NL20-NL50] NL50 JJ 3bet pot oop (again)

    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $36.94 (73.9 bb)
      BB: $108.26 (216.5 bb)
      Hero (UTG): $52.35 (104.7 bb)
      MP: $63.51 (127 bb)
      CO: $50 (100 bb)
      BTN: $50.80 (101.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with J J
      Hero raises to $1.50, 2 folds, BTN raises to $5, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.50

      Flop: ($10.75) 4 T J (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN checks

      Turn: ($10.75) 4 (2 players)
      Hero bets $6.50, BTN raises to $15, Hero calls $8.50

      River: ($40.75) K (2 players)
      Hero checks,

      Villain 1.3k hands
      25/20/8.1%
      3bet BU 13.5%
      3bet vs UTG 4.7% (4.9% IP)
      cbet flop in 3bet pot 62%
      Agg freq 45/35/27
      WTSD 31%
      WWSF 50%

      Once again, I didn't have any dynamics so I opted to call OOP. His line doesn't make any sense to me. I kinda doubted he was bluffing but thought "if he has a hand that calls my ship then he will be betting river anyways, so I might as well keep some bluff in the hand". Thoughts on my thought process?
  • 5 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Hey,

      Snap fold pre for me here.. His range is too tight imo to call. If you call to setmine, get his stack.. Calling to setmine means you stack him very often when you hit a set so you think he is not capable of folding TP in a 3bet pot! Once he checks back and raises turn, just 3bet imo. You are right, he can have bluffs, like AK usually but think of your preflop logic to call: He is tight that I get paid off when I hit, I know I fold to his 'bluffs' sometimes. Well, now is the time to make sure you stack a fancy played overpair imo because if you flat, he doesn't bluff too much on river IP, does he?

      Calling here pre is just asking for trouble. It's also with terrible odds vs a 10bb 3bet.
    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Hey,

      Snap fold pre for me here.. His range is too tight imo to call. If you call to setmine, get his stack.. Calling to setmine means you stack him very often when you hit a set so you think he is not capable of folding TP in a 3bet pot! Once he checks back and raises turn, just 3bet imo. You are right, he can have bluffs, like AK usually but think of your preflop logic to call: He is tight that I get paid off when I hit, I know I fold to his 'bluffs' sometimes. Well, now is the time to make sure you stack a fancy played overpair imo because if you flat, he doesn't bluff too much on river IP, does he?

      Calling here pre is just asking for trouble. It's also with terrible odds vs a 10bb 3bet.
      I definitely didn't call for set mine. The sample is not big and he has 13.5% on BU, that's A LOT.

      He chk back and showed Q4s, first time in a long time I tilted and won the pot. :)

      How do you adjust pre flop given this info?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      In Zoom, I 4bet a fuckload and JJ becomes a stack off probably.

      In normal tables it's a bit harder since I can't include Q4s in his default 3betting range. He might not 3bet Q4s up to Q8s, maybe he just saw you open a lot and decided it's time for him to 4bet.

      I usually just nit up OOP when people 3bet a lot behind since they don't adjust to my tight ranges. Funny, huh? Adjusting to tight ranges is stuff people have not learned to do.

      LE: I told you calling turn looks super strong already so you don't really induce any bluffs, but you might lose value from QQ+ on some cards. :f_biggrin:
    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      In Zoom, I 4bet a fuckload and JJ becomes a stack off probably.

      In normal tables it's a bit harder since I can't include Q4s in his default 3betting range. He might not 3bet Q4s up to Q8s, maybe he just saw you open a lot and decided it's time for him to 4bet.

      I usually just nit up OOP when people 3bet a lot behind since they don't adjust to my tight ranges. Funny, huh? Adjusting to tight ranges is stuff people have not learned to do.
      But as I understand it you hate calling 3bets oop, so I'm guessing you just tighten up your opens, widen your 4bet/ship range and 4bet bluff blockers?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Yep,

      I can play 8% open UTG if needed.. You'd say that's me being exploited but actually people don't adjust to my tightness and spew way too much compared to how strong my range is.I can open and almost never fold basically. That means any 3bet is dead money from them. I don't win the 1.5bb often enough to warrant keeping a wide range if I always get action. The point of widening your ranges, esp OOP is to win the blinds more of play with fish.. If you can't do that, just play tight and don't lose money. Money is made IP, position importance increases exponentially, so you can open 10% UTG and still open 100% OTB without any trouble.