is there a good time to leave

    • Dansinman
      Dansinman
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 16
      After failing miserably at MTT and big ups and even bigger downs at S&G I seem to have found my game in Cash.

      So, and I know this may sound like a stupid question, after a few days of NL $.50/$1 I have doubled my buy-in after an hour or two and then it just seems to plateau and stays around the same amount from then on.

      I realise there could be a number of reasons for this but I'm more interested to know if there is an optimum time to leave a table e.g. having doubled / trebled up?
      No doubt there are many smart ass answers and maybe its a dumb question but just wanted some advice

      Cheers

      Nick
  • 14 replies
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
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      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      If you leave a table after you win 5 buy-ins, you will never be able to win 10 buy-ins at it in one session ;) .

      It might be ok to leave if you're tilting hard, but in that case you should focus a lot on improving your mental game :) .

      -SF
    • Dansinman
      Dansinman
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 16
      Thanks SF

      So all about a state of mind? Playing safe at a certain point? Do you think theres an advantage to leaving the table and joining a new one......a new challenge so to speak?
      N.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
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      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Well, I would leave the table if the table is bad - if the fish leave ;) . If there are fish with lots of money on the table I would be happy to have the opportunities to take even more money from them ;) .

      I think it's mostly about the state of mind yeah. Leave the tables if you're tired, if the fish go away or if you tilt. But don't leave them just because you play deep against worse opponents :) .

      -SF
    • Calanau
      Calanau
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      Joined: 04.09.2011 Posts: 9
      According to the Chris "Jesus" Ferguson's bankroll management you should leave the table when you manage to treble your buy-in. Some players argue with it saying that since you have a good, winning streak you should stay at the table as long as it is possible, (making sure you are not loosing all your chips). Ferguson also suggests to leave the game if you cut your initial buy-in to half. That's how he claims he got his bankroll.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
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      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      When Ferguson made his bankroll there were no internet poker. Also the understanding about poker mathemathics (including variance) wasn't overall that good.
    • JonikoP
      JonikoP
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      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 600
      Here's the Chris Ferguson challenge: http://www.pokerplayer.co.uk/poker-players/player-interviews/8563/zero_to_hero_turn_0_into_10000.html

      He was trying to move up without redepositing. People with different goal may well have other approaches which are better/more +EV for them.
    • muumionu
      muumionu
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      Joined: 25.07.2012 Posts: 816
      i usually leave when i need to go somewhere
    • ihufa
      ihufa
      Gold
      Joined: 18.03.2008 Posts: 3,323
      Originally posted by Calanau
      According to the Chris "Jesus" Ferguson's bankroll management you should leave the table when you manage to treble your buy-in. Some players argue with it saying that since you have a good, winning streak you should stay at the table as long as it is possible, (making sure you are not loosing all your chips). Ferguson also suggests to leave the game if you cut your initial buy-in to half. That's how he claims he got his bankroll.
      Complete and utter nonsense
    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
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      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      well if you tripled up or more and there's another stack bigger than yours at the table and you feel uncomfortable of course you can leave.

      But if he's a whale and you have position vs him just be patient you will get all his cash ;)
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,220
      Originally posted by Kyyberi
      When Ferguson made his bankroll there were no internet poker. Also the understanding about poker mathemathics (including variance) wasn't overall that good.
      There were no poker sites as there are now. In the 1990's he was playing over IRC (Internet Relay Chat) a precursor to Windows Messenger.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      I can't see how stack size itself affects bankroll management. If you have 300bb stack, but effective stacks are 100bb, it doesn't really affect anything at all. So I really don't see the point in Ferguson's thoughts. And I understand even less about that leaving if you lose half of your initial buy-in. He doesn't reload? You leave once a whale hits his 4 outer on river?

      I don't know the rest of his story, but those reasons sound REALLY wrong to me. In poker, we should base all our decisions to logic. If you leave the table (or stay at the table) you need to have good logical reasoning for it. Good reasons to leave the table are:

      - Effective stacks are something that you are not comfortable with.
      - You feel tired, tilted, careless etc.
      - Table itself is not profitable anymore (worse players have left, your position etc.)
      - Your predetermined session time is up.

      Good player always thinks "is it profitable to be at this table? Where does my money come from?".
    • metza
      metza
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      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Calanau
      According to the Chris "Jesus" Ferguson's bankroll management you should leave the table when you manage to treble your buy-in. Some players argue with it saying that since you have a good, winning streak you should stay at the table as long as it is possible, (making sure you are not loosing all your chips). Ferguson also suggests to leave the game if you cut your initial buy-in to half. That's how he claims he got his bankroll.
      Ferguson also suggests siphoning player funds as a nice bankroll boost.
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Originally posted by Dansinman
      So, and I know this may sound like a stupid question, after a few days of NL $.50/$1 I have doubled my buy-in after an hour or two and then it just seems to plateau and stays around the same amount from then on.
      I had the same problem in my game. After I play 45 mins-1 hour I'm ususally not able to win more or if I'm losing I'm unable to recover.

      What I found in my game was that after about 1 hour I start to play a much more safer static game. I've figured out what tables to stay on, where the fish are and try to target their stack and don't attack small pots like I normally would.

      I'd 3bet bluff less, cbet bluff less (basically bluff less). My non showdown winnings would start dropping and my showdown winnings would increase slowly in small pots and basic winnings would stay same.

      The only way there would be a big difference would be if i win/lose a big pot (hit a monster or get sucked out/coolered).

      So basically its related to losing focus/becoming tired and playing a standard static sub optimal game.

      If you have similar reasons for this problem then my advice, figure out how long you play while being focused. Say its one hour. Then every alternate session start playing 1 hour 10 mins. Slowly you'll have enough stamina for playing a standard session for 1 hour 10 mins and you can play sessions that are 10 mins longer and so on. Same strategy is in one of the strategy articles too by Tendler where he talks about building mental muscle.

      On rare cases when you have a big fish and say your normal duration of session ends up then i'd recommend closing all other tables and 1 tabling on that table till that fish stays. Playing less tables after your normal session will help you stay focused.
    • OZSA
      OZSA
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      Joined: 18.05.2009 Posts: 804
      if u take a poker advice from fergusson, u won't improve much in this game. u have to stay till u have fishes, or tilted regs against u, if its 5other good regs, there's no point staying and leveling