[NL2-NL10] NL10 - 2 Pair

    • Philfox1985
      Philfox1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2010 Posts: 934
      Called the limp pre as I'm in position against a huge fish - should I have raised to isolate?

      Post flop it felt pretty standard given my opponents and the wet board.

      On the river I felt that his range is likely to be far wider than draws that hit, and he wasn't showing strength with a small donk bet.

      Seat 1: Player1 ( $13.41 USD ) - VPIP: 80, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 1.8, Hands: 35
      Seat 4: Hero ( $10.00 USD ) - VPIP: 31, PFR: 25, 3B: 7, AF: 2.7, Hands: 26864
      Seat 5: Player5 ( $8.60 USD ) - VPIP: 33, PFR: 13, 3B: 0, AF: 0.6, Hands: 54

      Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP: $13.41 (134.1 bb)
      CO: $10 (100 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $10 (100 bb)
      SB: $8.60 (86 bb)
      BB: $10 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with T 6
      MP calls $0.10, CO folds, Hero calls $0.10, SB folds, BB checks

      Flop: ($0.35) 6 T 5 (3 players)
      BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.25, BB calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25

      Turn: ($1.10) 4 (3 players)
      BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB folds, MP calls $0.80

      River: ($2.70) J (2 players)
      MP bets $0.20, Hero raises to $1.35, MP calls $1.15

      Results:
      $5.40 pot ($0.24 rake)
      Final Board: 6 T 5 4 J
      MP mucked A 5 and lost (-$2.50 net)
      Hero showed T 6 and won $5.16 ($2.66 net)
  • 4 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi Philfox,

      I really don't like our call here preflop. Our hand is not really ahead of a lot of his hands and even when we get a flush there are a lot more higher flushes possible.

      We also can't really flop strong straight draws and pairs are usually weak.

      Even against a range like 70% of all hands: 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J2s+,T2s+,92s+,84s+,73s+,63s+,53s+,43s,A2o+,K2o+,Q3o+,J5o+,T6o+,96o+,86o+,76o we only have 40% equity preflop.

      Even raising would be close but at least we give ourselves a chance to win the pot without hitting. So if you really want to play a bad hand such as this lets raise it (however I prefer the fold).

      As played we can raise/fold the river for value although it's thin value so we can't make it too big. I'd make it around 1.5-2 targeting Tx and smaller pairs.
    • Philfox1985
      Philfox1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2010 Posts: 934
      There didn't seem to be any real fold equity if I raised the limp, this type of opponent isn't going anywhere pre-flop. However, thinking about it, the value here is in isolating, plus increasing pot size against a weak opponent, rather than in FE.

      The value in playing the hand wasn't based on being ahead of his range, I had no illusions, it was mainly from getting to play in position against this opponent with a somewhat playable hand.

      Perhaps I ideally could / should have waited for a better hand, but even with 40% equity it still feels like playing against this type of opponent IP is a +EV move, clearly thinner than AK / KQ etc, but still ok when the opponent is so bad?

      Edit: As a side case in point. If I'm in the SB with A7o and the BTN is a strong LAG, I know if he openraises my equity is likely to be over 50% so in theory I should call based on odds, but also know that its more than likely to just be throwing money away as its so hard to play post-flop OOP with no initiative against a good aggressive opponent, so will pretty much always fold it or raise as a bluff.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Philfox1985
      There didn't seem to be any real fold equity if I raised the limp, this type of opponent isn't going anywhere pre-flop. However, thinking about it, the value here is in isolating, plus increasing pot size against a weak opponent, rather than in FE.

      The value in playing the hand wasn't based on being ahead of his range, I had no illusions, it was mainly from getting to play in position against this opponent with a somewhat playable hand.

      Perhaps I ideally could / should have waited for a better hand, but even with 40% equity it still feels like playing against this type of opponent IP is a +EV move, clearly thinner than AK / KQ etc, but still ok when the opponent is so bad?
      You have to define what bad means.

      IF villain doesn't fold a lot that makes him a station. That means that we want hands that we can valuebet a lot rather than hands that require FE to show a profit. We also have a hand that can't really take much heat if bet into even when holding a T or 6.

      The value in isolating would be from you most likely playing HU with initiative and position. Now you can take down pots preflop (limp/folding) or postflop when we cbet favorable flops.

      Part of our advantage versus fishy guys comes from our skill advantage but also from our card advantage (ex: our range is stronger than theirs). In this case we have no card advantage (in fact we are at a disadvantage) and we have no initiative. The only thing we have going is position and slight skill advantage.

      The other problem with limping is that we always have a multiway pot (unless we get raised by BB or SB).
    • Philfox1985
      Philfox1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2010 Posts: 934
      He is very loose and passive.

      I do understand your point and agree that typically this isn't a remotely standard pre-flop play for me, I'm typically playing about 24 / 22 over a decent sample, so folding this hand in every positon to any kind of open.

      My argument hinges on the idea that you can play pretty much any two cards (this is a *little* better than that) and be profitable if the opponent is bad enough & your IP