about push or fold

    • VIDOCCC
      VIDOCCC
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2011 Posts: 25
      I have downloaded the chart which I found in Strategy: SNG: Sit and Go Tournaments bronze article named "Four standard charts for the push-or-fold stage" and when I am doing ICM trainer light lessons, this chart range and the trainer's range (which they are offering in the same situation) are different. And I have question which one is better?
  • 5 replies
    • vuciitis
      vuciitis
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2011 Posts: 1,314
      just go with ICM trainer, it learns the basics about hand strenght, but remember that u have to learn to adapt to looser and tighter player and on the bubble...
    • ipeaceonu
      ipeaceonu
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2007 Posts: 232
      Charts suck, use the ICM trainer as every situation is different. The time spent messing about with charts can be better spent putting in common situations into the icm trainer and testing yourself within those parameters. If you want to find equilibrium ranges Holdemresources.net has an ICM calculator which can give you Push/Fold Nash Equilibrium approximations. Hope this helps.
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,241
      The ICM trainer isn't better - it's just different.
      The chart doesn't take bubble factors into account.
      At the same time the ICM trainer is focussed on bubble factors.

      Therefore: As long as you are early in the tournament and there is no bubble around the chart will be more accurate and as a beginner you can use it to get going.

      As soon as the bubble hits you have to play according to ICM. This can be practised by using the ICM trainer. Still, you will always have to adapt to the concrete situation. There is no standard chart for ICM situations and the trainer will only train you - but not provide you with a master solution.

      Your focus should be to make decisions independently without depending on any chart or trainer. Obviously this is a midterm goal and can't be achieved from one day to another. Constantly work on your game and question the things that you do. That will give you the opportunity to build up your own game piece by piece.

      Feel free to post all of your questions in the forum!

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • VIDOCCC
      VIDOCCC
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2011 Posts: 25
      thanks all of you. so Asaban if I get correctly when it is bubble phase (as I know bubble is when only a few players need to be eliminated before reaching the rewarded places.) it is more useful not to play with the chart and play according the ICM trainer and as soon as the bubble ends I'm continue playing according the chart, yes? ( I understand that it depends many factors in the game but as a default)
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,241
      Well - that's partially correct. In general there are further bubble factors after the bubble itself that have to be considered and therefore ICM has to be taken into account. Because the important bubbles will hit later on (final two tables and obviously final table) you can base your decisions on the chart again until you get there.

      You may find further information on the ICM concept here:
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/sng/175/1/

      Unfortunately the article is for silver status. You will need to accumulate a few strategy points in order to be able to read it. Further information on our points system is to be found here:
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/status-points/

      The knowledge of ICM is necessary and doing excerise with the ICM trainer won't help you understanding it, if you didn't get the fundamental concept behind it. Therefore I recommend reading the article (or any other article or book that is explaining ICM) as soon as possible.

      If you have further questions on ICM or anything else feel free to ask.

      As the other posters already pointed out: The chart that you are reffering to is very basic and therefore only valid for micro limits. You should as soon as possible base your decisions on your own thinkings. Most of the players will play way looser then the chart suggests.

      Again: If you have any question feel free to ask!

      Regards,
      Asaban