[NL20-NL50] NL20 SH KJo 3bet pot

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.20(BB) Replayer
      Hero ($22.22)
      BB ($28.85)
      UTG ($8.73)
      CO ($20.01)
      BTN ($22.04)

      Dealt to Hero J:diamond: K:spade:

      UTG calls $0.20, fold, BTN raises to $0.80, Hero raises to $2.60, fold, fold, BTN calls $1.80

      FLOP ($5.60) T:diamond: 8:heart: 4:diamond:

      Hero bets $2.90, BTN calls $2.90

      TURN ($11.40) T:diamond: 8:heart: 4:diamond: 9:diamond:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $16.54 (AI), Hero folds

      BTN wins $10.83

      UTG+1 45/15 132h
      BTN: 58/58 19h

      this was my first 3bet vs him. He was out of line with his PFR, so I should have FE.

      On flop he can have overcards so what can he do with them - fold. Unless he floats with draws. Not so sure. When this was my first 3bet vs him, it should look strong.

      On the turn I decided not to bet, because once he called I think he can have overpair or pair, or flush or whatever. He might or might not fold overpair - who knows now when he is unkwown.

      ------
      Now filtered his showdowns, and one of the hands is
      he opens UTg 58s, calls 3bet IP, call 1/2 cbet Q72 mono with no draw, cbh A, cbh 5 and still won the pot with his river pair :D

      so we can say he is calling station :) but I did not know this in game.
  • 7 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi Speed,

      Preflop: I'm not a huge fan of 3-betting these offsuite weaker broadways in spots where we can get called often by one or two people (For example the fish can call here often). Our hand will be dominated and we have a hand that can't continue postflop as much. On top of that we have an unknown opponent and while our 3-bet could look strong that's no guarantee that we won't see many flops OOP.

      Postflop: As played I think that cbetting that board is close, especially since you expect villain to give you a lot of respect for your 3-bet (and thus have a stronger range).
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      where we can get called often by one or two people


      But why do you assume that we can be called often? He can have so wide range and for that reason he could fold, especially when we have first 3bet.

      Fish would have to cold call 3bet which is not that likely also imo when he invested only 1 bb. Sometimes they cold call, but not that often as when he would have raised.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      where we can get called often by one or two people


      But why do you assume that we can be called often? He can have so wide range and for that reason he could fold, especially when we have first 3bet.

      Fish would have to cold call 3bet which is not that likely also imo when he invested only 1 bb. Sometimes they cold call, but not that often as when he would have raised.
      Generally speaking, at a 6 max games at these limits, people still call 3-bets often (or 4-bet) so I would expect him to call a fair amount. Fish are also likely to call in spots like this (for example that's why we would 3-bet a thinner range for value to possibly ISO the fish - and yes I agree that he doesn't call as often as a raise but they still call often enough to make this a problem for us to consider).

      How often does the average regular fold to 3-bets in spots like these?
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      How often does the average regular fold to 3-bets in spots like these?


      I think average could be about 60% f3bet. But this one I believe could fold more when he has wide range.

      But what to do then vs him? Maybe I should have called and keep his range wide and let fish ennter the hand.

      Otherwise he will continue put presure if I 3bet rarely (lets say suited blockers)

      The problem is that I would be OOP in 3way much more often if I call. But maybe its still bettern than to 3bet or fold.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      How often does the average regular fold to 3-bets in spots like these?


      I think average could be about 60% f3bet. But this one I believe could fold more when he has wide range.

      But what to do then vs him? Maybe I should have called and keep his range wide and let fish ennter the hand.

      Otherwise he will continue put presure if I 3bet rarely (lets say suited blockers)

      The problem is that I would be OOP in 3way much more often if I call. But maybe its still bettern than to 3bet or fold.
      I'd probably fold KJo. It doesn't play great at all multiway OOP.

      We can 3-bet an expended value range (versus their calling ranges) that includes hands like AJs, AQ, TT/JJ+, etc.

      We can also 3-bet hands like suited connectors that can play better postflop (rather than an offsuite broadway that's also easily dominated).

      And since you are to his immediate left you should have position on him a lot more often so the one time you don't have position (when in SB) you can play more passive.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      We can also 3-bet hands like suited connectors that can play better postflop (rather than an offsuite broadway that's also easily dominated).


      ofsouit braodways always play worse, but they are blockers at the same time, so I 3bet mainly becasue of blockers.

      Then the question - when its good to 3bet ofsuit broadways? Only when we are in position or when we have stats that opoenent fold 70%+ to 3bets?
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      We can also 3-bet hands like suited connectors that can play better postflop (rather than an offsuite broadway that's also easily dominated).


      ofsouit braodways always play worse, but they are blockers at the same time, so I 3bet mainly becasue of blockers.

      Then the question - when its good to 3bet ofsuit broadways? Only when we are in position or when we have stats that opoenent fold 70%+ to 3bets?
      Blockers are good when you don't really get called often so let's say if villain plays a 4-bet or fold game (like when we are IP and have more FE both preflop/postflop).

      For OOP there are so many better hands that we can 3-bet that we skip over these offsuite broadways all together.