[NL2-NL10] 5NL FR Zoom JJ facing 3 bet OOP

    • ChangNoi77
      ChangNoi77
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.06.2012 Posts: 352
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.05(BB) Replayer
      SB ($4.20)
      BB ($4.72)
      UTG ($5.05)
      UTG+1 ($4.72)
      UTG+2 ($5.22)
      Hero ($5.72)
      MP2 ($7.46)
      CO ($5.25)
      BTN ($7.31)

      Dealt to Hero J:heart: J:diamond:

      fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.45, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.30

      FLOP ($0.97) 7:heart: T:diamond: 4:heart:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $1.15, Hero calls $1.15

      TURN ($3.27) 7:heart: T:diamond: 4:heart: 2:club:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

      RIVER ($4.27) 7:heart: T:diamond: 4:heart: 2:club: 6:heart:

      Hero checks, BTN checks

      Villain is 17/12 Agg freq 22% 3 betting 8% v MP

      Not very often I call 3 bets oop, but I felt he was light enough here often enough. Is this a mistake without a read that he's polarized with stuff like 87s??

      What should my range for calling be here, and what should I be stacking off with?

      My biggest confusion pre flop since I moved to FR from 6 max is KK,QQ,JJ,AK, stacking off most of the time in todays 6 max games , but causing me a world of pain at FR tables.
  • 3 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi ChangNoi,

      Preflop: I agree with you that this call is light and possibly a mistake because we are going to be OOP and we will see high cards often. On top of that we will have a hard time playing postflop when we don't hit (7/8 hands).

      Even purely for setmining we don't get the odds to call (rule of 20).

      What sample of hands do we have on villain (overall)?

      Since you just moved from SH to FR you have to adjust your ranges especially when facing 3-bets because people are much tighter at FR and don't 3-bet nearly as much.

      I would not have a calling range OOP without info on the opponent and I would have a 4-bet/fold range versus guys that raise more often. We can 4-bet bluff hands with blockers like AQ/AJ/AT and so on.
    • ChangNoi77
      ChangNoi77
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.06.2012 Posts: 352
      I had 541 hands. His 3 bet stat overall was 4.2, which is high for these games.

      Ok so I can accept JJ is a fold here if we're never calling, but what about 4 bet/call AK or QQ?

      There seems to be a lot of players only ever stacking off KK+, and I'm not really sure if we make enough from when he 3 bet/folds to make up for when our QQ,AK meets KK+. But if you say calling is bad, folding everything but KK+ seems super weak and exploitable.

      My fold to 3 bet is 75% over almost 500K FR Zoom hands from 2NL to 25NL, and I'm struggling to get it below 70% where people can no longer 3bet me with any two cards and make a profit.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by ChangNoi77
      I had 541 hands. His 3 bet stat overall was 4.2, which is high for these games.

      Ok so I can accept JJ is a fold here if we're never calling, but what about 4 bet/call AK or QQ?

      There seems to be a lot of players only ever stacking off KK+, and I'm not really sure if we make enough from when he 3 bet/folds to make up for when our QQ,AK meets KK+. But if you say calling is bad, folding everything but KK+ seems super weak and exploitable.

      My fold to 3 bet is 75% over almost 500K FR Zoom hands from 2NL to 25NL, and I'm struggling to get it below 70% where people can no longer 3bet me with any two cards and make a profit.
      While people can 3-bet you with any two cards and make a profit the question should be: do they actually 3-bet you a lot? You mentioned yourself that the games are very tight and people rarely 3-bet so while you may get the occasional guy that 3-bets a lot he/she will be the exception rather than the rule. And versus these players we can 4-bet a lot OOP and call/4-bet a lot IP.

      With AK and QQ it really depends on the positions.

      Assuming 100 BB stacks if we get 3-bet and we 4-bet we usually make it 22-25 BBs. Let's assume we make it 25BB and have 75BB left to call when he shoves.

      That means that we need roughly 37.5% equity to call. If you have any solid reason to believe only KK+ stacks off then you can treat your AK as a 4-bet bluff and still fold. Now if we made a mistake and he does have AK, QQ+ then with both QQ/AK we have to call.