[NL2-NL10] 5NL FR Zoom A6s Pair plus FD

    • ChangNoi77
      ChangNoi77
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.06.2012 Posts: 352
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.05(BB) Replayer
      SB ($5.27)
      BB ($5)
      UTG ($5.41)
      UTG+1 ($5.49)
      Hero ($5.34)
      MP1 ($3.99)
      MP2 ($6.33)
      CO ($4.95)
      BTN ($4.39)

      Dealt to Hero A:diamond: 6:diamond:

      fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, MP2 calls $0.15, fold, BTN calls $0.15, SB raises to $0.30, fold, Hero calls $0.15, MP2 calls $0.15, BTN calls $0.15

      FLOP ($1.25) 3:diamond: 6:spade: 4:diamond:

      SB bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, MP2 raises to $1, BTN folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $5.04 (AI), MP2 calls $4.04

      TURN ($11.63) 3:diamond: 6:spade: 4:diamond: T:club:

      RIVER ($11.63) 3:diamond: 6:spade: 4:diamond: T:club: 3:heart:

      SB is a 23/12 3 bet 3.4

      HJ is a 13/10 Agg Freq 46% Raise c bet 15%, but never a 3 bet pot, over 3500 hands

      I think I misplay this spot a lot. I'm not totally sure how often he has a worse draw, but we do have showdown value so I 'm thinking maybe calling flop is best, and just accepting we're likely check folding a whiffed turn. Or is shoving ok as there's so much in the pot anyway?

      I think I need 38.44% and have 31% v a set here so shoving can never be a big mistake can it?
  • 5 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi ChangNoi,

      Preflop: This open from MP is a bit loose unless we have some massive fish behind us.

      Postflop: Calling to keep everyone (or more people) in the pot is fine as long as we don't expect to get bluff raised often.

      As played, why exactly are we shoving over MPs raise? Do we expect him to stack off with worse hands or fold better?

      We do have a lot of equity with pair+draw but we are almost always behind when getting the money in on this flop.

      Assuming 0 FE we need to put in 4.7 to win 11.63 (before rake) and that means we need 40% equity versus his range.
    • ChangNoi77
      ChangNoi77
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.06.2012 Posts: 352
      I just decided at the time that with his raise c bet stat so high over a good sample he must have some worse draws in his range, and maybe QQ,JJ. I also get worried that I won't be able to see the river and have to ditch my equity share when I may make a mistake, where as shoving doesn't look like it can ever be a big mistake against such a villain.

      As for the A6s from seat 3, I've watched videos on another training site and seen an instructor recomend opening all suited aces from all positions. My old 6 max coach used to say the same. I am aware from reading forums, and watching other videos that not all good players seem to agree, I took a decision last week to experiment by playing them all and just being careful not to overvalue my top pair. Any advice you can give me on this matter is greatly appreciated!

      For the record, until last week my Axs ranges were first 2 seats AJs, seat 3 ATs, Seat 4 A9s, HJ A7s, CO A2s, They weren't hands that I used to flex much due to table conditions.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      I tend to open suited aces from all positions as well (in FR and of course more in SH games). However it's always table dependent. Obviously the wider the ranges that we can possibly face the better it is to play these hands.

      As long as you don't overplay your TP type hands (which is what a lot of people do when playing suited aces that are small) you should be fine.

      Now back to the hand, have you equilabed a range of hands that you think takes this line and then compare it to our hand?

      Also, do you think we have fold equity with our call and then shove over his raise?
    • ChangNoi77
      ChangNoi77
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.06.2012 Posts: 352
      Giving villain a range of QQ-JJ,66,44-33,75s,KdQd,KdJd,QdJd,Ah5h,As5s,Ac5c,6d5d is exactly 50%

      66,44-33,75s,KdQd,6d5d is 37%,

      and QQ,66,44-33,75s,6d5d 39.5%

      So this leads me to think that shoving must be best as I can only make a mistake if he only raises sets with a couple of combos of worse draws. It's unlikely such a player doesn't have some worse flush draws in his range. Where as calling OOP and maybe having to fold the turn and the best hand would be a disaster.

      Is my logic correct?
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by ChangNoi77
      Giving villain a range of QQ-JJ,66,44-33,75s,KdQd,KdJd,QdJd,Ah5h,As5s,Ac5c,6d5d is exactly 50%

      66,44-33,75s,KdQd,6d5d is 37%,

      and QQ,66,44-33,75s,6d5d 39.5%

      So this leads me to think that shoving must be best as I can only make a mistake if he only raises sets with a couple of combos of worse draws. It's unlikely such a player doesn't have some worse flush draws in his range. Where as calling OOP and maybe having to fold the turn and the best hand would be a disaster.

      Is my logic correct?
      Well shoving I think is around break even at best IF he raises/goes broke with draws and some 1p hands. So that's somewhat of a bigger if but at least pairs can raise/broke there given the raise sizes. If we ever have FE it gets better but I doubt we are ever in a spot where we will be super profitable taking our line.

      I do agree that shoving is most likely better than calling and playing the turn given the lack of info we have.