PT EV Line and Rake

    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Does the pokertracker EV line account for rake? I mean sure it sounds obvious but since rake is different for each room it may not have been included and since its not that important a thing the EV line, and is not accurate in multiway pots, this could be the reason why most people are "under EV" for example if the calculation is simple and goes solely on equity without factoring in what you lose from rake then obviously you are going to be running under EV.

      Also there is the rake that you don't win when you lose on a bad beat but wouldn't have won anyway, which means if you get bad beat eg AA vs KK, your equity is x, but you would have then won x and lost yx to rake and I dunno if the EV line would factor in lost equity that is not actually lost because it cannot be won by either player due to rake.

      Most likely it does, but its just a thought.
  • 1 reply
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 642
      Originally posted by metza
      Does the pokertracker EV line account for rake? I mean sure it sounds obvious but since rake is different for each room it may not have been included and since its not that important a thing the EV line, and is not accurate in multiway pots, this could be the reason why most people are "under EV" for example if the calculation is simple and goes solely on equity without factoring in what you lose from rake then obviously you are going to be running under EV.

      Also there is the rake that you don't win when you lose on a bad beat but wouldn't have won anyway, which means if you get bad beat eg AA vs KK, your equity is x, but you would have then won x and lost yx to rake and I dunno if the EV line would factor in lost equity that is not actually lost because it cannot be won by either player due to rake.

      Most likely it does, but its just a thought.
      Yes, PokerTracker accounts for rake when calculating All In Equity Adjusted Winnings. Notice I did not say EV, that is because we removed the term All-In EV from PokerTracker 4 because it is a misnomer that we are trying to help poker players correct. When we compare the expected winnings between two hands that are all in we determine the equity that each hand has in the pot, and then multiply that equity times the size of the total pot which will be awarded at showdown - basically this is winnings adjusted for equity once the players are all in, or as we call it All-In Equity Adjusted Winnings. EV is the Expected Value of any decision in a hand, for example what is your expectation when you hold 55 and you shove on a board of AKQ vs your opponents range of likely hands. This range would consist of hands that would call your shove and be behind but still have some equity to improve (AK, AQ, KQ), hands that would call and leave the hero drawing very thin (AA, KK, QQ, JTs, JTo) and the fold equity that the hero expects to gain from all of the hands that the villain will probably fold. EV requires a human being to enter in the predicted range that you opponent holds, a computer doesn't have the ability to do that (yet).

      Additionally it should be noted that unless your a heads up player, you should not over rely on all-in equity adjusted winnings. When there are multiway pots a bias is introduced into the stat by the unknown hand, keep in mind that any player who is in the pot at any time has some unknown equity that we cannot fully access without human intervention of predicted ranges. This is the real reason why players run under-EV, they do not understand that it is impossible to account for multiway pots.

      For more information on this really complicated topic, read this excellent essay by Jeff Hwang - https://www.pokertracker.com/blog/2011/10/the-problem-with-all-in-ev-all-in-equity

      PS: I am rather proud of the fact that only PokerTracker 4 has the ability to provide full enumeration of Equity Adjusted Winnings, to perform the calculations by default we rely on a lookup table (which is accurate), and anytime the lookup table cannot be used we perform the actual calculation. You also have the ability to only use the lookup table (monte carlo, which is the fastest), or always perform full enumeration.