Raise on the flop with air or possible worse hand

    • Tosh5457
      Tosh5457
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 3,062
      Ok sometimes I go to a flop with a really donkey maniac player who likes to raise my bet on the flop with air. For example I raise 4BBs pf with 77 on CO, donkey from BTN calls. Flop comes Q26 rainbow. I bet and he raises me, if I think I have the best hand what should I do? Calling on the flop and donkbetting turn is weak right? So what should I do, try to see a cheap showdown(call flop, check/call turn, check/call river) or 4bet the fish?
  • 7 replies
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      how sure are you he doesnt have a Queen?

      if your sure enough he doesnt, the strongest play is ALL-IN.
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by Tosh5457
      So what should I do, try to see a cheap showdown(call flop, check/call turn, check/call river) or 4bet the fish?

      from experience trying to have a cheap showdown leaves you vunrable.
      if your opponent pics up that your weak or been passive, there going to get agressive on you, putting you under preshure to make a dessision.

      thats whay i say go all-in if you sure you have the best hand.

      you'll have no more dessisions to make after that and all the preshure will be on your opponent.
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      If you think you have the best hand...why should you go all-in? That makes no sense. If you go all-in he might fold a lot of hands. If you are really sure, you have the best hand, go for pot control and try to see a cheap showdown.

      But!

      The case you explained: For this is an very easy bet/fold on the flop. Why should you risk your money in such a bad spot? You should rather wait for a better spot. The maniac is loosing his money anyway, so try to get it when you have top pair top kicker or better.

      Best regards,
      TribunCaesar
    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      You can never be sure - a maniac might play some weak queen and have hit. You can't play check/call on flop because he might catch sth higher than sevens on turn. I would try a cbet here and if it doesn't work check/fold to the river except the seven comes.

      gen
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by TribunCaesar
      If you think you have the best hand...why should you go all-in? That makes no sense. If you go all-in he might fold a lot of hands.
      its dependent on the situation,

      say you have 7-7 in the pocket anf the flop comes: Q,4,2

      if your sure your ahead...and i mean really sure you go all-in and pick up a small pot...its just to easy to get out drewn to 7's...its better than losong a big one.

      if you had a more solid hand then no you wouldnt go all-in...you would indeed want value
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by generals007
      You can never be sure - a maniac might play some weak queen and have hit. You can't play check/call on flop because he might catch sth higher than sevens on turn. I would try a cbet here and if it doesn't work check/fold to the river except the seven comes.

      gen
      not a bad stratagey there.

      i never said you COULD be sure,

      i was saying if you fell confident enough he doesnt then you should.

      it come down to odds. if its below a 50% chance you oponent haas you beat you go all in as a call will give you 50/50 pot odds. so if the % your beat is below 50 its a winning play.

      but if its more than a 50% chance your beat then you dont.
    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      If you argue like that then you will have to know this player's stats, otherwise everything else is just guessing.

      Rule of thumb: better fold than call if you are 50% sure :P

      gen