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# example of ICM

• Bronze
Joined: 19.06.2011
so I'm testing different situations in ICM and I've encountered the weird one. here it is. 4 players, blind are 100/200, ante is 15, Co has 2000 and the others have 1000-1000. so ICM calculate that CO is pushing with 90% of his range. so now I remove Co and instead of Co now Bu has 2000 and blinds have 1000-1000 and Bu's pushing range is only 59%. can you explain me why? thanks in advance. (you can test yourself..)
• 4 replies
• Bronze
Joined: 11.05.2008
So you say CO pushes 90% when stacks are 2000/1000/1000/1000
And BU Pushes 59% when the stacks are 1000/2000/1000/1000

This isn't true. HR says the range is about 80% for each situation, so there is really no reason to be confused. I think you might be calculating the 3-handed situation 2000/1000/1000 where the BU pushes 46% according to HR calc, and there is no cutoff player.

This situation is NOT equivalent, the fact that the CO still has 1k chips is very important in non-winner take all payouts. Try to change the payout to winner take all, then you'll see that the pushing ranges are the same in the two situations you described.

So the question you have (if I understand you correctly) is why are these not the same with non-winner take all payouts structures?

The simple answer is that the bubble is stronger 4 handed as it is 3 handed. Intuitively the jump from 4th to 3rd is 20% and from 3rd to 2nd is only 10% in the common SNG structure. When the bubble is stronger you have more fold equity with a big stack so you can push wider.

Hope it helps!
• Bronze
Joined: 19.06.2011
thx Optroot I understood everything but I have a little problem, I don't know how to change "winner take all". I'm using ICM trainer of pokerstrategy tool. does it have something like this?
• Bronze
Joined: 11.05.2008
I don't use ICM Trainer, so I'm not sure if it's possible. You can use the web based "Holdem Resources Calculator" to play around with it winner-take-all. It's just a google away.
• Moderator
Moderator
Joined: 22.09.2006
Here it is:
http://www.holdemresources.net/h/web-calculators/nashicm.html

Regards,
Asaban