[NL2-NL10] [Sh] Nl5 66 01-02-13

    • Resilence
      Resilence
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.03.2012 Posts: 934
      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $6.09 (121.8 bb)
      SB: $8.89 (177.8 bb)
      Hero (BB): $5 (100 bb)
      UTG: $7.37 (147.4 bb)
      MP: $4.83 (96.6 bb)
      CO: $8.66 (173.2 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 6
      UTG folds, MP raises to $0.15, CO folds, BTN calls $0.15, SB folds, Hero calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.47) 2 8 2 (3 players)
      Hero checks, MP bets $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

      Turn: ($1.07) 6 (3 players)
      Hero bets $0.76, MP calls $0.76, BTN folds

      River: ($2.59) K (2 players)
      Hero bets $1, MP raises to $3.72 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.72

      Hi,
      Bad river call?

      Anyways heres my thought process...

      Villains are both unknown...

      Preflop:
      Calling for set value.

      Flop:
      Was about to give up here, but MP didn't seem to be doing something really smart here, he gave us both odds to call, which I found rather weak, could ofcouse be an instance of I got you now bastards comealong...

      Turn:
      Hit my fullhouse here, was a bit scared it might be dominated.
      Decided to lead out, I was confident I had the stronger hand here..

      River:
      Wasn't to happy about the K here, however I assumed villain(fishy) would play Kx type of hands this way, he might even just have 8x, but he would not call a bigger bet than $1 I think.
      Now this is where it got interesting, he shoves, which could mean anything really, however I thought he could do this due to my small bet, thinking his Kx was good, but I have no story with him and maybe I should have just folded, even tho my instinct is calling him a fish here?

      Fold or is my call fine?
      If he was as strong as he tried to seem on the flop wouldn't he have reraise me on the turn? I still think fishy players would get it in with their Kings here?
  • 3 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi Resilence,

      Preflop: looks fine

      Postflop: You don't really get odds to call. You get 19% pot odds and you have 2 outs, so you have 4%.

      You may have some implied odds but not much and our hand will see scare cards almost always on turn/river so it's hard to have the best hand at showdown.

      So before we comment on the river what range do you put him on for donking small on flop and calling a bigger turn bet?

      Why can he not call a bigger river bet?

      I don't the fishy guy would raise KK/88/22 at any point other than the river. They like to keep you in (hence the small bet). So if villain is passive we can bet/fold although we did underbet and maybe induced a bluff from some diamonds that missed.
    • Resilence
      Resilence
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.03.2012 Posts: 934
      I've seen fish play really awkward many times, so ptting them on an actual range is rahter difficult:
      They hit they bet, even tho it's not a really really strong hand.

      So I guess these are the hands he would continue with after my turn bet:

      88+,22,A8s,K8s,98s,87s,A8o,K8o,98o

      On the flop his range would consist of any 8x suited and some random 8x of suited, that is atleast what I think. I also belive he would bet if he thinks he has the best hand with a higher PP than 8, I don't think they understand that it's a multiway or maybe they do, and then they try to take down pots with air.
      Thats atleast what I've seen alot of lately.

      If my range on the turn is correct then yes my call was -EV, but I don't know that he would call my bet on the turn with better, he might giveup, which he didn't , but on river I don't think my range changes much, they usually love their PP's TP's.

      Range might look like this:

      JJ+,88,22,A8s,K8s,K8o

      Against this I'm still ahead most of the time, on the river.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Resilence
      I've seen fish play really awkward many times, so ptting them on an actual range is rahter difficult:
      They hit they bet, even tho it's not a really really strong hand.

      So I guess these are the hands he would continue with after my turn bet:

      88+,22,A8s,K8s,98s,87s,A8o,K8o,98o

      On the flop his range would consist of any 8x suited and some random 8x of suited, that is atleast what I think. I also belive he would bet if he thinks he has the best hand with a higher PP than 8, I don't think they understand that it's a multiway or maybe they do, and then they try to take down pots with air.
      Thats atleast what I've seen alot of lately.

      If my range on the turn is correct then yes my call was -EV, but I don't know that he would call my bet on the turn with better, he might giveup, which he didn't , but on river I don't think my range changes much, they usually love their PP's TP's.

      Range might look like this:

      JJ+,88,22,A8s,K8s,K8o

      Against this I'm still ahead most of the time, on the river.
      I see that we haven't added any 2x hands. Since villain was PFR can we expect him to have A2 or K2? This comes down to loose he raises PFR so I think it's same to say that a lot of these won't be raised.

      I also think that villain may have a poorly played AK and AA and since we bet smaller he may think he is good and raises it for value.

      Even if he has 88/KK/22 that's 7 combos we get 27% pot odds so if he has even 3 combos of a worse hand we are doing fine.

      So that means that he has to raise a fraction of his K8/AA/AK type hands.