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Fold SB to steal

    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      What is optimal on 3:1 and 5:2 structure?

      Because after 917 hands I have these stats.. VPIP is too low, W@SD is terrible but 95% fold to SB is way too much. It's small sample size so it's more teoretical question. :)



      btw: how it's possible to have Handrange Flop < VPIP? maybe some bug?

      btw2: it's just me, or Elephant doesn't consider open raise from SB as steal raise?
  • 7 replies
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hmm I think it should be also around 85% as many players don't care about it. It's better to play opponent based. TAGs should be able to adept so defend a bit tighter against them (maybe a kicker tighter at the worst hands).
      You call to much down in my opinion. If you are used to 40% it's fine but notice that your swing will be a lot bigger if you do so. (The w$wsf is low also so maybe you make bad calldowns. It may be justa downswing too. ;) )
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Yes, I used to have WtSD at 40% since I switched to SH and it payed me off so far. The thing is, you need lower W@SD to achieve same winratio (eg. I had only 50.51% won @ SD with 40.3% went to SD while playing 2/4SH) - if it's good or bad, it depends on your preferences and/or playing style.
      I don't think I'm playing so good or so bad, but I will think about taking my WtSD a bit lower ;)

      Originally posted by ciRith
      The w$wsf is low also so maybe you make bad calldown. It may be justa downswing too. ;)
      What do you mean? w$wsf is 'won $ without showdown", so it has nothing to do with call downs. Opponents are folding not so often if it's low, and too much if it's high - what is "optimal" in this case?

      And yes, it's very bad downswing (at least I hope so) as you can see W@SD is only 42.7%...
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      w$wsf is Won $ When Seen Flop :)

      won $ without showdown would be like w$wsd or something :D
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      lol.
      I should read basic manual for tracking software :)

      How could I w$wsf translate it that way? Where the hell did I forget last "f"? :rolleyes:

      Now it makes sense what ciRith wrote ;) OK, so what's optimal range for w$wsf on 3/6 (or higher)?
      Anyways, if I make bad call down my W@SD is low and (probably) it has nothing to do with w$wsf, because it doesn't matter if I fold on flop or calldown - w$wsf is the same.. just thought
      Looking from the other side: Either I fold too much (39.5 WTSD doesnt indicate it) or I play too passive (I don't give my opponents chance to fold) => LOW w$wsf . . . or am I wrong?
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Nah it makes no sense. I meant W$@SD not W$wsF. I don't even know on my own how to interpret that value. Sorry for that. :)
      At this point I didn't know that you are used to such a high wts so I assumed that you maybe make bad calldown. But it's most probably just a downswing. With your wts I recommend you a bit tighter BRM as the swing will be bigger too. :)
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Yes, I'm going to switch to 700 - 800BB when moving from 3/6 to 5/10 (7-8k) so it looks like I'll spent some time on 3/6...

      Today I moved back to 2/4 to get some confidence back and aimed for lower wtsd and it looks so:
      33.1% WtSDwsF
      54.1% W@SD

      looks too tight but I was -75BB after 850 hands (+ 28BB after 1760)... I really don't know if I should try to play more tight after flop - how it's on 5/10 & 10/20? Are you more SD commited or not?


      And about downswing: you're right; it's f* downswing :(
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Way looser. I'm not showdownbound enough. 40 wts is nearly standard at this limit. :)