[NL2-NL10] Nl4 frustrating hands at betfair

    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Known Players:
      MP2: $4.00 - 100 bb
      MP3: $5.12 - 128 bb
      CO: $4.79 - 120 bb
      BU: $4.17 - 104 bb
      SB: $5.39 - 135 bb
      BB: $4.37 - 109 bb

      0.02/0.04 No Limit Hold'em (6 Handed)
      Hand recorder for this hand: PokerStrategy.com SideKick 1.1.116.1

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 5:spade: , 5:club:
      SB posts small blind ($0.02), BB posts big blind ($0.04), Hero raises for $0.12, MP3 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls

      Flop: ($0.38 - 9.50 bb) A:spade: , 5:heart: , 4:spade: (3 Players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.18, CO calls, BB calls

      Turn: ($0.92 - 23 bb) T:spade: (3 Players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.70, CO calls, BB folds

      River: ($2.32 - 58 bb) 2:heart: (2 Players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $1.16, Hero calls


      Villain had a flush.

      Known Players:
      MP2: $4.10 - 103 bb
      MP3: $6.81 - 170 bb
      CO: $3.76 - 94 bb
      BU: $1.12 - 28 bb
      SB: $1.27 - 32 bb
      BB: $4.06 - 102 bb

      0.02/0.04 No Limit Hold'em (6 Handed)
      Hand recorder for this hand: PokerStrategy.com SideKick 1.1.116.1

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 4:heart: , 4:club:
      SB posts small blind ($0.02), Hero posts big blind ($0.04), MP2 folds, MP3 raises for $0.16, 3 folds, Hero calls

      Flop: ($0.34 - 8.50 bb) K:diamond: , 7:club: , 4:diamond: (2 Players)
      Hero checks, MP3 bets $0.26, Hero calls

      Turn: ($0.86 - 21.50 bb) 8:club: (2 Players)
      Hero checks, MP3 checks

      River: ($0.86 - 21.50 bb) 5:spade: (2 Players)
      Hero bets $0.64, MP3 raises for $6.39, Hero calls, MP3 gets uncalled back ($2.75)

      villain hit straight on river.

      River folds for 2nd hand? Raise flop? It's incredibly hard for me to fold sets (unless theres 4 cards of the same suit) and whenever i try to fast play they fold so damn often.
  • 7 replies
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Flop:

      Your bet size is way too small. AX or flush draws aren't folding vs larger bets anyway. Just bet 30 cents immediately.

      Turn:

      I would continue betting again for sure. He's still not folding AX most of the time

      River:

      I'm not sure how loose your opponent is. But I prefer betting half pot since I still think he can call with more worse hands than better hands. And I would bet/fold, since I don't expect him to raise with anything worse than a flush.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      I think c/r Flop and c/c Flop c/r Turn are both options. The board may have a flush draw but it's kind of dry, all 3 cards aren't really connected.

      If opponent is more passive, I prefer c/r Flop. If opponent likes to barrel many turns, I prefer c/c F c/r Turn.

      River is tough. We only have a bluff catcher. Does he really shove two pairs here? If yes, we should call. It doesn't make too much sense for him to bluff here though. I think we have some 6X hands in our range, like 56s 68s

      Assuming he is not too bad of a player, and is more of a solid guy who doesn't get out of line, we can fold here cos he almost always has a straight. Ultimately this is a villain dependent spot, so based on the info provided I think you could find a fold.
    • ilidek
      ilidek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.07.2010 Posts: 2,952
      Hi mbml I have few questions because sets on flush boards are a bit problematic for me:

      hand #1

      we have 5s5c
      F: As5h4s (0.38 3 way)
      we bets 30 Co and BB calls

      T: Ts (1.28) bb x and we bets (1?)
      bb folds CO calls

      R: 2h (3.28) ( we have 2.58 behind )

      1) In this sizing you still want to bet R? Probably you would say something like: it depends from our opponent so here my additional questions:
      a) How would you play vs unk guy and why ?
      b) If you would have stats. On what kind of opponents would you play x/f and on what kind of opponents would you play b, why, and what kind of stats would you use and why?

      hand #2

      How you treat unk player? I mean vs unk you would play x/r on F ? He bets 0.26 you would raise him to 0.77 or what sizing would you use?
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      I think it all boils down to whether you have value or not.

      If more worse hands call than better hands, then you have a value bet. Makes sense? If he is on average, calling with hands that beat your hand, then you shouldn't even value bet in the first place.

      So this is basically related to how loose he is postflop. Does he call down with any AX even if the flush hits? How loose is he preflop? Does he play every Ace in the deck? If he is looser pre, he has more top pair hands to call down with (estimated by VPIP). If he is looser post (shown by the WTSD stat), then he doesn't fold his AX even in the face of huge strength from you.

      Since you are playing NL4, my default assumption here is that the unknown guy is going to be loose and passive on average. He doesn't bluff raise too much, and he makes the primary mistake of being unwilling to let go of his hand. Thus, I would bet 65% pot on the Turn after betting 80% on the Flop, then I would bet 50% pot on the River and fold to a raise.

      I think the reasoning should be clear - We expect him to still continue calling with enough worse hands so we have value. We don't want to bet more than 50% pot if not we put a lot of pressure on his AX hands which may just fold either because the kickers aren't strong enough or he is afraid of the flush. He will be more inclined to make a crying call vs a half pot bet. When he raises, we assume he rarely bluffs and probably has a flush. So we can fold without too much thought.

      The problem with your c/c line is that he mostly checks back weaker hands and bets flushes only. So you just let him get a cheap showdown with worse and pay off his better hands.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      By default vs unknown player, I take the c/c Flop c/r Line. Board texture is dry (there's a flush draw and the 7+4 is a little connected but on the whole it is a relatively dry flop).

      But c/r-ing could be fine too. Since we are assuming that NL4 players are on average, more passive, we could argue that they rarely fire turn bets after continuation betting the Flop. So that would make more of an argument for checkraising the Flop immediately.

      I think it's close for NL4, but at higher limits I would always c/c c/r, given how often people are just bluffing the Turn.
    • ilidek
      ilidek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.07.2010 Posts: 2,952
      Thank you very much!

      @Hand 2 after he play xb on T you just b/f ~80% ?
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      I think it's a bet/fold vs most. I don't think people usually take this line as a bluff, especially with such a huge overbet. Our betting range on the river should be pretty polarized and strong too. We never bet AX here, so we either have a set or straight, or some air. I don't think he needs to jam if he wants to bluff raise us.

      Therefore I would assume he is much likelier to have some sort of straight here on the River.