giving credit to fish?

    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
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      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Yea I know even if you get sucked out and are frustrated by someone with 100 VPIP you should give them credit so that they will stay at the tables and come back to play which means it would be +EV for you in the future.

      However I just can't stand it when people don't get what they deserve, and they suck all the hard work out of you by just getting lucky. Being card dead for 10-20 orbits and finally you realise you have a strong value hand and try to put in a larger than normal preflop raise (because you know the fish will call anyway) and then get sucked out by that luckbox. I just can't lie to myself and give him credit. If anything I can only insult him.
  • 14 replies
    • gp00053
      gp00053
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      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 154
      When you play like that, you're helping them to stay in the game and if you're running bad, not only do you get to watch the fish suck out, you get to watch some other guy walk away with your money.

      I played 6 tables in my session today, started early morning, 15 minutes later I was down $587.00. After screaming at my computer screen, the poker Gods, I took a couple of deep breaths, and kept going. I was card dead for the rest of the morning and early afternoon. I was down around $700 and change when I shut down all my tables except the one with 2 weak players and one of the most aggro whales I ever saw, He was raing 7 bb from any position, cbetting turn beetling 100%. Watching his stack was like watching a yoyo just per aggression. Anyway I bided my time and in 3 hands where I flopped the nuts I never made a bet just check called. I got most of my losses back, I was stuck $80 when he left the table
      Moral of the stores, bide your time and be patient. It will change
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
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      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      Hi tommygecko,
      I'm not sure that you're giving him credit.

      If you get sucked out on, yes it is a problem.
      If you get sucked out on, and you're frustrated, you have TWO problems.

      One of those you can control.

      However I just can't stand it when people don't get what they deserve, and they suck all the hard work out of you by just getting lucky.
      This sounds like "Injustice Tilt" one of the forms of tilt outlined by Jared Tendler in The Mental Game of Poker.

      It would help you to read it. More than read it -- for the book to help you, it is necessary to implement it's strategies and techniques.

      Are you playing SnGs or Ring Games?
      SnGs add a whole new dimension to frustration.

      Being card dead for 10-20 orbits and finally you realise you have a strong value hand and try to put in a larger than normal preflop raise (because you know the fish will call anyway)
      Isn't it better to make all your raises more-or-less the same? Harder for them to figure out what you have if you play AA on the BTN same as you play 78s

      All the best,
      --VS
    • ThatGuyMatt
      ThatGuyMatt
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      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,758
      I don't mind a fish getting my chips in a badbeat, I'm aware they'll lose them to others, you never know - I may even get them back myself!

      The main point is that you keep them in the game for longer, they think they're winning, or at least think it's possible, they're enjoying themselves and it invites them to deposit a little more when they go bust. If we was to simply win against them all the time, would they deposit more? Do we want less fish? If you're a good player the $ will eventually end up in you Bank, just roll with it :)
    • gp00053
      gp00053
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      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 154
      Originally posted by MattDenness
      I don't mind a fish getting my chips in a badbeat, I'm aware they'll lose them to others, you never know - I may even get them back myself!

      The main point is that you keep them in the game for longer, they think they're winning, or at least think it's possible, they're enjoying themselves and it invites them to deposit a little more when they go bust. If we was to simply win against them all the time, would they deposit more? Do we want less fish? If you're a good player the $ will eventually end up in you Bank, just roll with it :)
      Absolutely agree 100%. [ that's why you get the big money :) ]
    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
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      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F

      Isn't it better to make all your raises more-or-less the same? Harder for them to figure out what you have if you play AA on the BTN same as you play 78s

      Well, he is a fish. A fish wouldn't pay attention to my bet size. He would probably call anything other than an all-in.

      I play both ring game and SNGs. And yes, it's extremely frustrating in an SNG when there's a calling station with the biggest stack at the table. If your cards don't hold you're busto despite being 2nd place at that time
    • gp00053
      gp00053
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      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 154
      Originally posted by tommygecko
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F

      Isn't it better to make all your raises more-or-less the same? Harder for them to figure out what you have if you play AA on the BTN same as you play 78s

      Well, he is a fish. A fish wouldn't pay attention to my bet size. He would probably call anything other than an all-in
      I agree with you, I think in the case of fish they don't pay attention to position, stack, bet sizes or players, which is why as you sat they're fish. As long as you look for their particular weakness or weaknesses, and take advantage of them. Ex A calling station who calls very wide pre flop, then plays fit or fold on the flop, you will cost yourself money keeping your raises the same.
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
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      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,923
      Some excellent suggestions in here already so I cannot really add anything. Patience is the key that unlocks the door in many of life situations so why would it be any different in poker?



      Kind regards,
      Gary
    • Agiz19
      Agiz19
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      Joined: 19.03.2007 Posts: 1,097
      hmmmm give him credit of course, but in 99% of cases like that that guy will leave and go lose it to someone else :f_cool:
    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
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      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Originally posted by Agiz19
      hmmmm give him credit of course, but in 99% of cases like that that guy will leave and go lose it to someone else :f_cool:
      Yea I agree sometimes they take your money with spewy play and then leave immediately and you never see them again. So frustrating.
    • gp00053
      gp00053
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      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 154
      Originally posted by tommygecko
      Originally posted by Agiz19
      hmmmm give him credit of course, but in 99% of cases like that that guy will leave and go lose it to someone else :f_cool:
      Yea I agree sometimes they take your money with spewy play and then leave immediately and you never see them again. So frustrating.
      A couple of things 1. Don't worry there's always lots of fish to take their place. 2. Make the money personal guard that with good play not the fish like I said you can always replace the fish
    • Nicko00
      Nicko00
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      Joined: 04.05.2011 Posts: 22
      I found the same when I was playing on PKR more then other places. I was getting ridiculously frustrated with the suck outs and bad beats I was getting. I haven't played there in over two months and will probably play there again over the next few days with a clearer game then I was coming to the end of that stretch. Hopefully I will win back what I lost in bad beats and more, I find it to be an incredibly soft place to play.

      A problem I have when you wait around for value hands and they don't pay off is I start to play more like them and that never ends well, I'm not a luckbox myself so doesn't ever really go my way.

      Think a mod mentioned not playing predictable value hands like waiting for your AK and to mix it up with 78s and the like. I play like this but at the same time if they're a fish they probably aren't paying attention to the percentage of hands you are actually playing and don't take your range into account. Think my main problem was over complicating my game and trying to set traps. Smart ABC poker goes a long way on that site.

      Going to give it a lash over the next few days, play a few MTT's might come back and say how I get on (realistically that'll be only if it goes incredibly well or I am infuriated by bad beats!!)
    • Gentari
      Gentari
      Global
      Joined: 08.05.2011 Posts: 344
      FISH is a term often attributed by poor/average players to recreational players who know no better than to think Kx is good on a AKT coordinated flop.

      Ask yourself this - 'If he showed me his cards would I have made the same play?'

      If you answer YES - then it's a beat/cooler and you move on.

      If you answer NO - then look at the hand, evaluate in the hand forums and work on your game.

      Play the situation and stop beating yourself up when the cards come down and we cannot get away from them.

      Good Luck :)
    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
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      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Originally posted by Nicko00
      I found the same when I was playing on PKR more then other places. I was getting ridiculously frustrated with the suck outs and bad beats I was getting. I haven't played there in over two months and will probably play there again over the next few days with a clearer game then I was coming to the end of that stretch. Hopefully I will win back what I lost in bad beats and more, I find it to be an incredibly soft place to play.

      A problem I have when you wait around for value hands and they don't pay off is I start to play more like them and that never ends well, I'm not a luckbox myself so doesn't ever really go my way.

      Think a mod mentioned not playing predictable value hands like waiting for your AK and to mix it up with 78s and the like. I play like this but at the same time if they're a fish they probably aren't paying attention to the percentage of hands you are actually playing and don't take your range into account. Think my main problem was over complicating my game and trying to set traps. Smart ABC poker goes a long way on that site.

      Going to give it a lash over the next few days, play a few MTT's might come back and say how I get on (realistically that'll be only if it goes incredibly well or I am infuriated by bad beats!!)
      Yes I agree, vs fish there is absolutely no need to balance your range. On Pkr i find it even more frustrating because the software is so slow and it takes ages for a good hand to come because of that. And when you are finally happy that you got AA you raise but get 4-5 callers behind you it's kinda annoying because your AA suddenly becomes so weak and you're out of position vs at least 2 of them and what used to be an insanely profitable spot becomes a losing spot. I love to play against fish but when there are too many fishes it's almost like playing roulette.

      And yea, I think we just gotta accept that at microstakes there's only one way to play. In SNGs I'm not sure though, if you play too tight you're going to be exploited and forced to get it in with marginal hands when the blinds are too big. It's annoying when a fish accumulates a big stack and the only way you can win is to get a very strong hand, and hope it holds. Or when a fish calls your raise with rags and hits the board consistently and cripples you because of that. It's frustrating to run bad in SNGs because of fishes, that's why I started this thread in the first place, lol.
    • gp00053
      gp00053
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      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 154
      Originally posted by Gentari
      FISH is a term often attributed by poor/average players to recreational players who know no better than to think Kx is good on a AKT coordinated flop.

      Ask yourself this - 'If he showed me his cards would I have made the same play?'

      If you answer YES - then it's a beat/cooler and you move on.

      If you answer NO - then look at the hand, evaluate in the hand forums and work on your game.

      Play the situation and stop beating yourself up when the cards come down and we cannot get away from them.

      Good Luck :)
      With all due respect to you. " That is without a doubt the most ridiculous statement Salansky ever came up with. Theories have to be based on reality; not some fantasy world that does't exist ". Example if I have AA against 55, I'm favorited to win about 80 % of the time over a million hands ; the weather person says its going to rain today, so my theory is I should bring my umbrella if I don't want to get wet etc. Not if no one is in the forest and a tree falls, does it make a noise, I think it will take me a half hour to dig half a hole, or if my brother had a dick he would be my sister etc.

      Again my friend no disrespect to you , but the op needs facts and proven strategies to deal with the many different poker situations