[NL20-NL50] NL50sh - Very coordinated board!

    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Hi again I'm sorry for my many posts but it's because I keep losing lately :rolleyes:

      So I thought this spot was pretty hard and I was tanking a bit on turn and river.

      Villain: 18/13/94h this is his 1st callopen OTB. FoldtoCB 1/2

      So preflop I think he has most pairs and T9s+ as SC's. Also some ATs+, AJo+, KJs, KQo etc. This seems reasonable for him?

      I expected he'd raise flop with a set. He can still have 77 and also QJs. I'd hate to bet/fold here so I checked the turn to check/call. I didn't think many worse hands called? KJcc KJhh and 88?

      He checks turn so I didn't give him credit for a turned straight and he can't rly have a rivered straight so I did bet small and hoped he herocalled with T9s or ATs or TJs

      Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 2091888
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BB: $57.71
      Hero (UTG): $50.00
      CO: $60.67
      BTN: $71.10
      SB: $71.32

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG with 9 :diamond: 9 :club:
      Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, BTN calls $1.50, 2 folds

      Flop: ($3.75) T :club: 6 :heart: 9 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.50, BTN calls $2.50

      Turn: ($8.75) 8 :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN checks

      River: ($8.75) J :spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $4, BTN calls $4
  • 7 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi Farma,

      Preflop: looks fine

      Postflop: How do you expect a nitty player (given the small sample) to play his draws? Most people play them a bit passive still so he can still have many heart draws on the turn.

      He can also have JJ and some Tx hands so I don't like our check. Were you hoping he floated or afraid of being raised? I would bet there and if raised, based on the size we can call or fold (I doubt a guy like this would bluff or semibluff us).

      As played villain can still have some Qx for sure like QJ, AQhh, QKhh, etc. and I think our cbet is a bit too thin.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      How do you expect a nitty player (given the small sample) to play his draws? Most people play them a bit passive still so he can still have many heart draws on the turn.


      I also think he'd play them passive.


      He can also have JJ and some Tx hands so I don't like our check.


      I forgot about the JJ but only Tx which he calls is TJs? And maybe Athh etc but he pbb raises flop w it.

      Were you hoping he floated or afraid of being raised?


      Yeah I was afraid he was going to raise with 77 or QJ which made a lot of sense and I wouldn't get the odds so I went for potcontrol ott?


      As played villain can still have some Qx for sure like QJ, AQhh, QKhh, etc. and I think our cbet is a bit too thin.


      I don't agree here. I can't imagine that he checks those hands OTT or doesnt raise those strong draws otf
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      In the first sentence you said you also thing that he will play his draws passively so why can't he have AQhh/KQhh and QJ on the river? Sure, maybe not QJhh which is a super combo draw but other QJ hands.

      So lets make up our mind. If you don't think he has those draws then obviously he doesn't have many Qx hands and it's mostly QT that beats us there or JJ (as a set). I still think that the value we get is super thin at best. TJs is 2 combos, and ATs is 3 combos and I doubt we get second pair to call there.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by BogdanPS
      In the first sentence you said you also thing that he will play his draws passively so why can't he have AQhh/KQhh and QJ on the river? Sure, maybe not QJhh which is a super combo draw but other QJ hands.

      So lets make up our mind. If you don't think he has those draws then obviously he doesn't have many Qx hands and it's mostly QT that beats us there or JJ (as a set). I still think that the value we get is super thin at best. TJs is 2 combos, and ATs is 3 combos and I doubt we get second pair to call there.
      hehe yeah sorry. With draw playing passively I meant that he'll just call the flop with QJ and 77. Probbably not combodraw.

      But even if he calls combodraws then he bets the turn vs my missed bet, no doubt

      So the only thing that beats us is JJ and let's say 1 QTs combo so it's pretty close if I think that?
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Originally posted by BogdanPS
      In the first sentence you said you also thing that he will play his draws passively so why can't he have AQhh/KQhh and QJ on the river? Sure, maybe not QJhh which is a super combo draw but other QJ hands.

      So lets make up our mind. If you don't think he has those draws then obviously he doesn't have many Qx hands and it's mostly QT that beats us there or JJ (as a set). I still think that the value we get is super thin at best. TJs is 2 combos, and ATs is 3 combos and I doubt we get second pair to call there.
      hehe yeah sorry. With draw playing passively I meant that he'll just call the flop with QJ and 77. Probbably not combodraw.

      But even if he calls combodraws then he bets the turn vs my missed bet, no doubt

      So the only thing that beats us is JJ and let's say 1 QTs combo so it's pretty close if I think that?
      That's if he actually calls any of the worse hands like AT because JTs is only 2 combos.
      I agree with you that some combo draws or straights bet the turn but he may be afraid to bet AQhh for example so he doesn't get raised (I've seen that a lot from people's justifications).
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Okay thanks!

      So what is best on the turn? Just bet? Check/call?
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi.

      Turn is close in my opinion. There's a subtle difference between T968 and T768s

      For T968, we can get called by JT QT, on the T768 we are less likely to get called by JT QT.

      It also depends whether he's more passive or more aggro. Do we really need to bet Turn for protection and value vs flush draws? Wouldn't he bet flush draws himself when checked to?

      It basically boils down to whether you have a valuebet on the Turn or not.

      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 45.66% 43.70% 1.96% 9d9c
      MP3 54.34% 52.38% 1.96% 77, QTs+, JTs, 87s, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh

      I think this is a Check/Call. We are not able to bet the Turn for value since we are an underdog vs his Turn calling range.