3Bet after draw?

    • VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,828
      This converter is going to be a cash cow...
      PokerStars Limit 5 Card Draw $0.25/$0.50 - 5 players

      Button: $4.96
      SB: $11.65
      BB: $6.34
      UTG: $2.26
      CO: $11.68 (Hero)

      Dealing Hands: ($0.35) K:diamond: 7:diamond: 2:club: 4:diamond: 3:diamond: (5 players)
      UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.50,
      This is a bit abnormal for me -- I normally don't bluff w/ flush draw in such early pos, but I've had a nitty image at this table, so I though I'd have a go at it.
      Button folds, SB calls $0.40, BB raises to $0.75,
      Ah, Crap -- but now I have superb pot odds
      Hero calls $0.25, SB calls $0.25

      First Draw: ($2.25) (3 players)
      SB discards 3, BB stands pat,
      Double Crap
      Hero discards 1,
      K:diamond: 7:diamond: 4:diamond: 3:diamond: || 6:diamond: <== Yippee!
      SB checks, BB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, SB folds
      The question:
      Should I 3Bet this?
      A) I beat most combos that would pat.
      B) I have no idea what his range is: It could be anything from a wheel to a royal, or anything in between.

      C) In this PARTICULAR case, he would have folded to an AD 3Bet, if he was at all sensible.

      BB showed 3:club: 4:heart: 7:spade: 6:spade: 5:diamond: , a straight, Three to Seven
      Hero showed K:diamond: 7:diamond: 6:diamond: 4:diamond: 3:diamond: , a flush, King high
      Hero won $3.10
      (Rake: $0.15)
  • 10 replies
    • metza
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      5 Card Draw looks like it would make for a very fun no-limit game. :f_biggrin:
    • VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,828
      There is a pot-limit version that has some traffic on Stars, and there is a no-limit one as well, but way to pricey for my bankroll.

      The fun one is NL 2-7 single draw.
      That one is basically playing chicken -- only with cards.

    • jon011
      Joined: 31.08.2011 Posts: 22
      If you have AKQJT, you beat 50% of his pat hands.
    • jbpatzer
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      HU NL 5CD is my favourite HU game.

      With regard to the hand, it's close to a situation that I've analysed in our book, which is a capped pot predraw with both players pat. In that case, a K high flush is right on the borderline between call and raise here, and I suspect it's still close between call and bet/call in this hand. The point is that you need slightly better than AKQJT, the median pat hand, to raise, because there's the threat of another bet going in, assuming that you're never folding.
    • p44mc
      Joined: 06.06.2010 Posts: 36
      If memory serves the median pat hand is AKQJT, median flush is KJ???, I’d say easy raise in FL, mostly play NL these days and not much of it so would be making a decision more based on HUD stats in NL/PL

      If I raise and face a re-raise I make a fishy call and try and justify it by telling myself it’s worth paying 1 BB to not appear exploitable :f_cool:
    • p44mc
      Joined: 06.06.2010 Posts: 36
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      B) I have no idea what his range is: It could be anything from a wheel to a royal, or anything in between.
      Also, although it’s near impossible to assign a numerical value to it there’s always some possibility he’s snowing
    • norab
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 9
      If when you raise you are committed to call a reraise from your opponent , then your hand should beat 2\3 of his range which as you said is from a wheel to a royal flush. To determine that requires some heavy duty math. If you raise instead of calling in effect you are committing 3 bets to win 2, and will break even if you win 2/3 of the time.
    • duckspace
      Joined: 12.11.2010 Posts: 222
      I think I will raise here and call, if he reraise. his range is any str8/ flush/ FH. I hope getting some value from his str8 and other not A high flush.
    • sandraardnas
      Joined: 11.01.2012 Posts: 2,017
      first thing is that you have no image at all in this limit, players are mostly fishy, they are looking at their cards and no one cares about you :)
      But lets say you have nitty image, then if you are better than median pat hand which is probably AKQJT, then there is value in raising and calling raise.
      This player wont fold A2345 to raise and if he 3bets then you have to call 0,5 to 5,25 pot which means you have to have best hand less than 1 out of 10 times and i'm sure you have correct pot odds here.
      Fun starts when SB 3bets after your raise:) . I think he is full of fulls and you could fold then. Unless hes a fish playing nl holdem because such players can overplay many hands r
    • elderwon
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 1,729
      I would call here. On the same note as jbpatzer explained I read somewhere that raising in this situation needed at least an Ahi flush.
      All of this assuming you don't know a lot of villain in these situations.

      I'm kind of a read/note freak maybe... :P