[NL20-NL50] 50shz AJo MP

    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $180.17 (360.3 bb)
      SB: $62.81 (125.6 bb)
      BB: $84.36 (168.7 bb)
      UTG: $42.57 (85.1 bb)
      Hero (MP): $65.71 (131.4 bb)
      CO: $51.49 (103 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP with J A
      UTG folds, Hero raises to $1.50, CO folds, BTN calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, BB folds

      Flop: ($5) 3 4 K (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $3, BTN folds, SB calls $3

      Turn: ($11) 9 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $6.24, SB calls $6.24

      River: ($23.48) 6 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks

      Results:
      $23.48 pot ($1.29 rake)
      Final Board: 3 4 K 9 6
      SB showed 3 3 and won $22.19 ($11.45 net)
      Hero mucked J A and lost (-$10.74 net)

      VPIP: 21, PFR: 18, 3B: 9, AF: 8,4, Hands: 1019

      Given his call from SB I put him on some middle PP, and usually they don't fold to a flop CBet, so I 2nd barreled but he did have a middle pair, turned into a set :(
  • 8 replies
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi.

      Flop: I think it's fine, we have some backdoor straight draws and the King high rainbow board is just so dry. Very difficult for them to call with lower pocket pairs.

      Turn: Assuming he has a tight c/c range on the Flop, we have hardly any fold equity on the Turn. We did not pick up any equity on the turn either so we should just give up now.

      River: River did not change the board in any way so I am not going to try folding out a King.

      Thanks.
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by mbml
      Hi.

      Flop: I think it's fine, we have some backdoor straight draws and the King high rainbow board is just so dry. Very difficult for them to call with lower pocket pairs.

      Turn: Assuming he has a tight c/c range on the Flop, we have hardly any fold equity on the Turn. We did not pick up any equity on the turn either so we should just give up now.

      River: River did not change the board in any way so I am not going to try folding out a King.

      Thanks.
      His fold to flop CBet is 43, and from what I've seen he doesn't like to fold PPs so much on flop. Do you think it's still a check anyway on turn due to lack of added equity? (and because it was a 3way on flop?)
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi.

      I would expect him to call 99 in headsup on flop but not in 3way.

      If his flop calling range is stronger than he is not folding turn.

      Anway even in headsup im not randomly barreling turns
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by mbml
      Hi.

      I would expect him to call 99 in headsup on flop but not in 3way.

      If his flop calling range is stronger than he is not folding turn.

      Anway even in headsup im not randomly barreling turns
      Another reason to not 2nd barrel in this spot might be this:
      in this spot, say I have KQ, I probably wouldn't want to 2nd barrel for free showdown, as he's not the right opponent to do that against. It's more reasonable to check behind here on turn and induce a bluff, right?
      So this should be another reason why my 2nd barrel wouldn't be that credible.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      2 barreling for free showdown is a bad reason to bet the turn. You either bet if you think you have value (if you have a made hand) or you don't if you do not have value.

      I don't think whatever you mentioned is too relevant though. It is as simple as:
      -His Flop calling range is strong and is probably mostly sets and KX. He never folds the Turn
      -Turn card did not change the board in any way. He never folds the Turn.
      -We did not pick up any additional equity - No reason to barrel the Turn.
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by mbml
      2 barreling for free showdown is a bad reason to bet the turn. You either bet if you think you have value (if you have a made hand) or you don't if you do not have value.

      I don't think whatever you mentioned is too relevant though. It is as simple as:
      -His Flop calling range is strong and is probably mostly sets and KX. He never folds the Turn
      -Turn card did not change the board in any way. He never folds the Turn.
      -We did not pick up any additional equity - No reason to barrel the Turn.
      Wait what do you mean bet for free showdown is a bad move?
      There are many hands that are not good enough to bet 3 times for value. It's one of the first things you learn through ps.com articles, the rule "small pots for small hands and big pots for big hands".
      Against passive fish that don't show aggression not even with big big hands, it's good to have that kind of line, isn't it?
      At least this is what I studied and am studying on the articles x_x even if I'm a bit behind with theory...

      I do see the logic behind what you say however, but at the same time you can't assume to know villain's hand all the time, especially against people who have 30+ PF range and AF max 1, and a high WTSD.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Your decision with a made hand is very simple in most cases.
      -If you can go for value, just go for value. You need to be able to beat his calling range on average.
      -If you cannot go for value, check.

      Betting for free showdown is irrelevant. It's not a good reason to bet the Turn. If he doesn't call you with worse hands on average, then you are just value-cutting yourself.

      If your hand is not strong enough to bet 3 streets, just check the Turn. This is mostly applicable to drier boards.
      If the board is still somewhat draw heavy, then it's probably a better idea to bet the Turn and check the River. Having draws on the board not only enables your opponent to call the Turn with a wider range of hands including some 2nd pair hands, but also enables him to call with draws (which you are ahead of with your top pair).

      "Betting for free showdown" is not a good reason to bet, just like "raising to see where you are at".
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by mbml
      Your decision with a made hand is very simple in most cases.
      -If you can go for value, just go for value. You need to be able to beat his calling range on average.
      -If you cannot go for value, check.

      Betting for free showdown is irrelevant. It's not a good reason to bet the Turn. If he doesn't call you with worse hands on average, then you are just value-cutting yourself.

      If your hand is not strong enough to bet 3 streets, just check the Turn. This is mostly applicable to drier boards.
      If the board is still somewhat draw heavy, then it's probably a better idea to bet the Turn and check the River. Having draws on the board not only enables your opponent to call the Turn with a wider range of hands including some 2nd pair hands, but also enables him to call with draws (which you are ahead of with your top pair).

      "Betting for free showdown" is not a good reason to bet, just like "raising to see where you are at".
      Thx for the explanation now I see what you meant, and I agree.
      Love having these talks with you <3