[NL2-NL10] kq gets re-raised

    • jmackenzie
      jmackenzie
      Silver
      Joined: 04.06.2008 Posts: 1,241
      Known players:
      Hero:
      $2.00
      UTG+2:
      $14.67
      SB:
      $7.62
      MP1:
      $14.74
      MP3:
      $13.31
      MP2:
      $4.95
      UTG+1:
      $7.81
      CO:
      $3.20
      BU:
      $1.70
      UTG:
      $8.78

      0.05/0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.50 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K:club: , Q:spade:
      4 folds, MP2 calls $0.10, 2 folds, SB calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.60, MP2 raises to $4.95 (All-In), SB folds, Hero raises to $2.00 (All-In).

      Flop: ($7.05) 9:heart: , 8:diamond: , 3:diamond:
      Turn: ($7.05) 8:heart:
      River: ($7.05) 2:spade:


      Final Pot: $7.05

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows a pair of eights (Kc Qs)
      MP2 shows a pair of eights (Ad Jh)

      MP2 wins with a pair of eights (Ad Jh)
  • 9 replies
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      I should Fold Preflop because of Three things:

      1] SHC says fold when a raise comes up in front of you

      2] KQo isn't that great of a hand especially when you are facing a 3-bet.
      against:
      Any Ace-x you have an equity of 41.5%
      QQ+ you have an equity of 14%
      AK you have an equity of 25%
      AQ you have an equity of 25%
      JJ you have an equity of barely 43%
      22 you have an equity of 48%

      As Daniel Negreanu says in his book Hold'em wisdom for all players:
      KQ is one of the 10 Trouble Hands in Texas Hold'em because they are difficult to play and oftentimes are dominated by better hands


      3] MP2 Limps/raise. On lower limits you can see this as monster hands because fishes tend to limp with monsters because if they raise, they believe everyone folds. Go and look for it while you are playing.

      Hopes this makes sense ;)
    • Midazolam
      Midazolam
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2007 Posts: 7,820
      @Grev Sorry this is totally wrong
      1. SHC is correct, but there is no raise in front
      2. KQ is not a great hand, but we are playing SSS. For us this hand is good enough to raise from lateposition and out of the blinds.
      (I guess Daniel Negreanu never played SSS at the micros ;) )
      3. limps /= raise Sometimes it is a monster but most times it´s crap.

      @jmackenzie
      your raise was good and to push also because of
      Your remaining money : Your original raise
      1.4 : 0.6 =2.3
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      I agree with Midazolam, you played it correctly, but I personally would push preflop directly after 2 limpers when sitting in the blinds, simply because you have to push any flop if you get called and as it was said, KQ isn't much of a hand. Therefore you should maximize you FE preflop by pushing.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      So only based on the remaining money : original raise , you should go broke here?
      And what if the odds of that were above 2.5:1 Midazolam, were you about to push anyway then or just plain fold accordingly?
    • Midazolam
      Midazolam
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2007 Posts: 7,820
      I take reference to this article http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/822/5/#h1_5

      So only based on the remaining money : original raise , you should go broke here?
      As long as my pocket calculator works correct this is right.
      Here we have the problem that we haven´t any reads/stats that can help by this decision. So I play basic SSS. And this is what SSS says.

      And what if the odds of that were above 2.5:1 Midazolam, were you about to push anyway then or just plain fold accordingly?
      I would fold if the rate is higher than 2.5
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      I see but respect the way I see it with equity , nevertheless I agree to your post Midazolam.

      As a matter of reference, jmackenzie, could you post the result ?
    • Midazolam
      Midazolam
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.09.2007 Posts: 7,820
      The results are in the first post. Just mark it.
      But I think the results doesn´t matter to judge a hand.

      Originally posted by jmackenzie
      Known players:
      Hero:
      $2.00
      UTG+2:
      $14.67
      SB:
      $7.62
      MP1:
      $14.74
      MP3:
      $13.31
      MP2:
      $4.95
      UTG+1:
      $7.81
      CO:
      $3.20
      BU:
      $1.70
      UTG:
      $8.78

      0.05/0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.50 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K:club: , Q:spade:
      4 folds, MP2 calls $0.10, 2 folds, SB calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.60, MP2 raises to $4.95 (All-In), SB folds, Hero raises to $2.00 (All-In).

      Flop: ($7.05) 9:heart: , 8:diamond: , 3:diamond:
      Turn: ($7.05) 8:heart:
      River: ($7.05) 2:spade:


      Final Pot: $7.05

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows a pair of eights (Kc Qs)
      MP2 shows a pair of eights (Ad Jh)

      MP2 wins with a pair of eights (Ad Jh)
      I see but respect the way I see it with equity
      I do, but I don´t understand your arguments.
      If you would have said you can win $3.84 ($4.05-$4.05*0.05 ->rake) and you risk 1.4 if you push.
      You got potodds 2.74:1 so you need an equity of 26.73%.
      If villain has a 3-bet range of TT+, AQs+, AQo+ (Equity 72,5%) it would be EV+, but I think he has got a tigher range, so it would be EV-
      Than we discuss only the range and I could understand it.

      But this is way too much strategy for beginners.
      Play basic SSS at NL10 and you will earn enough money ;)
    • kostaKAT
      kostaKAT
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2008 Posts: 9
      Whic are the ohter 9 Trouble Hands??
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Originally posted by kostaKAT
      Whic are the ohter 9 Trouble Hands??
      This is from a MTT/BSS cash game perspective I think but here you go:
      J8
      AT
      KQ
      Axs
      KT
      AJ
      Q9
      JJ
      KJ
      AQ ( I doubt this one but I can see why he has put this one on the list )


      @ Midazolam:

      I didn't related my post to +EV at all , thanks for referring to that
      Its just that I don't like pushing while you have a winning chance of average ~33% . But on NL10, everything is unpredictable and sticking to SHC is the best way to achieve it
      See you next time in a discussion, I appreciate it ;)