sss so hard for me...

    • HappyUmbrella
      HappyUmbrella
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.07.2008 Posts: 11
      hello all :-) (true i have a silly nick name .. but im happy )

      i wanted to get a few tips from u guys (and girls...)

      i just cant understand the sss (well i do understand it but it just hard for me to play it )

      i played in real life with friends and ppl that i dont know (so i played be4 poker in mid lvl game i guess (the point is that i know poker pretty well know pot odds and outs and i have good readings...)

      and it just to hard for me to play in sss style

      in the basic articels the bigger point is just to wait to the hand and play it with max chips in...
      well..
      i try to do that
      i lost like 3-4 times with pocket kings that hit into a set and stuff like that (it was all in preflop state)
      and i lost those race too often with ak (me) vs lower poket or even vs ace queen

      it seems i just need to wait into a hand and hope for "luck"
      i understand the math behind the idea.. (in the long term it will be profftble)
      but it seems i just cant play sss in a good way (i keep wait for a hand and after alot alot of hands i get one from the chart.. or i loose it or it took me
      so much rounds (that i payed alot bb so even i double up its not proffit.. i always rebuy back into 20bb when lower then 15 but still i did it so much to get my self a playble sss hand)

      any way i need maybe a good explin and tips what is the point in sss style
      i tried to play in the way i know (i dont want to re invet the wheel as the acrtile said...) but.. in the way i know it seems i made more money ...

      hope some one can help me and explin me sss in a batter way casue the article had alot of blanks...


      P.C
      IM NOT TRYING TO SAY SSS IS NOT GOOD
      IM TYING TO SAY I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT VERY WELL SO IT FEEL I PLAY IN A WORNG WAY...
  • 24 replies
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,596
      Pretty much the only way you will learn how to play SSS is re-read the articles over and over again, attend coachings, post hands and read as many forums as possible relating in what you are playing-limit/nolimit/SnG's/Tournament etc etc.
      goodluck.
    • HappyUmbrella
      HappyUmbrella
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.07.2008 Posts: 11
      well i play nl10 (005 - 010)
      with my starting capital of 50
      well i have alot up and downs...
      and to tell the truth most my money i made with hands that arent on the sss chart
      (i tryed my play strategy on 002 005 blinds) and it went ok...
      still alot up and downs but more ups i guess
      i do want to learn the SSS
      i cant argue with results.. alot ppl make money from SSS
      i just dont get it
      i dont understand...
      i read the articels so many times.. and i know how to play SSS i just dont under stand the logic.. and becasue i dont understand the sss i cant play it very well.. (i need to understand the logic behind it... and how to play the game on the math way and not the reading way..)
    • xponentx
      xponentx
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2008 Posts: 341
      SSS works ok, I think one of the key things is learning to steal. Like all SSS players, I find that I lose about at much as I win, but when you put stealing into the equation, it supplements your losses and you get into a good upward groove.

      I think the stealing articles are silver, so keep at it and when you get to silver, read the stealing article. It really helps.
    • Velak
      Velak
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 542
      Originally posted by HappyUmbrella
      and to tell the truth most my money i made with hands that arent on the sss chart
      I don't have time at the moment for one of my normal long winded replies (lucky you!) but... this sentence I quoted says a lot about why you're not winning with SSS.

      You're playing hands that are not on the chart. If you're doing that, you're not playing SSS.

      Reread the articles. learn them. Follow them closely, and stick to them.

      Good luck.
    • HappyUmbrella
      HappyUmbrella
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.07.2008 Posts: 11
      Originally posted by Velak
      Originally posted by HappyUmbrella
      and to tell the truth most my money i made with hands that arent on the sss chart
      I don't have time at the moment for one of my normal long winded replies (lucky you!) but... this sentence I quoted says a lot about why you're not winning with SSS.

      You're playing hands that are not on the chart. If you're doing that, you're not playing SSS.

      Reread the articles. learn them. Follow them closely, and stick to them.

      Good luck.
      that is what i ment
      when i didnt play SSS i earned some money
      i played my way....
      the way i know
      it doesnt mean that i go with 10$ into a table.. (i dont)
      but the SSS its just ..i just dont get it..
      i played now 4 hours (not the SSS way) i earned 10$ ..
      and my point is if i would play SSS i had only 1 time that i had a hand from the sss chart
      i play TAG and it seems it work for me...
      i know (think) sss is also a something like tag but..
      as i said if i would play sss in those 4 hours i would loose alot blinds... and play 1 or 2 hand .. (pocket king i think and pocket j .. the J lost btw... lol)

      it seems hard 2 play SSS without blind stealing.. or sometimes call with sut conectors and stuff like that... (when the pods odds are good)

      i really want to understand batter the sss but it seems u need 2 wait so much until u get your self a playble hand.. and if so u can loose that hand (WELL DA!!!)

      so i have read the articles... i think i just didnt understand sss as i should...

      so i wanted few tips and pointers..
      and stuff like that
      or to explin me the logic of sss




      ---

      Originally posted by xponentx
      SSS works ok, I think one of the key things is learning to steal. Like all SSS players, I find that I lose about at much as I win, but when you put stealing into the equation, it supplements your losses and you get into a good upward groove.

      I think the stealing articles are silver, so keep at it and when you get to silver, read the stealing article. It really helps.


      well that was one of my points...

      i think the stealing should be bronze or something..
      it seems sss is not that affective without sometimes to steal blinds
    • Velak
      Velak
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 542
      In general, I don't steal blinds.. I did in june, and june was my worst month.

      I'm a big fan of SSS.. I'll try to keep my eye on your thread and when I have time, I'll come back with some more in depth replies.
    • HappyUmbrella
      HappyUmbrella
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.07.2008 Posts: 11
      thats sweet
      thanks alot :-)

      meenwhile i will try to improve my sss gameplay
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,596
      If "your way" is winning you money ($10).
      Why are you trying to change your winning ways?
      why not stay with the way you are going?
      sounds like its workign for you.
      i'm not trying to tell you not to play SSS and with Pokerstrategy but you can't just expect to start winning straight away.
      It Takes time to fill in your mistakes and learn every detail of the SSS to become a winning player.
      Be patient, learn the methods and the money will come over the long run.
    • Baconbits
      Baconbits
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 31
      Hi Happy

      I've been playing SSS since I switched to NL about 3 weeks ago. First week I did little better than break even but I'm getting better at it now and I'm up nearly $50 after 7k odd hands of NL10 (I have a job/family etc so I can only manage 2 or 3 hours a day) so I'm winning at a rate of around 3.25BB/100 hands. I know this isn't much but it's a start, and I feel confident in the strategy now :)

      I'm not stealing very much at all, only when I have tight players infront (I use poker office for stats) and I have a reasonable hand anyway.

      I think one of the most important things, that people sometimes overlook, is good table selection. Picking looser games (>22% VP$IP or 25% players/flop if possible) when/if you can find them will make a huge difference, and having some software running so you can monitor when the tables tighten up I find invaluable - if you are multi tabling it can be hard to spot without help.

      Other than that study, practice, repeat I suppose, like everyone else says. And dont be afraid to start reading again from the beginning, even the basic articles.

      BB
    • HappyUmbrella
      HappyUmbrella
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.07.2008 Posts: 11
      my way do work(meen while.. and on real life i have nice earnings in real life right now i have (i have very strict strategy that i follow her alot of time just not when im on tilt)

      but as the articels said...
      "why to reevent the wheel all over again?"

      it seems SSS work for alot of people..
      and poker its a game of satistics... so its pure logic that i need to do what earns more money to more people :-)

      it seems SSS work...
      so i wish to learn it and master it :-)

      i just dont get it yet... thats why im here .. to learn...

      no?????
      i keep read and i keep reread...
      it seems i have alot of blanks in the SSS
      when to cbet
      how much to rasie on the flop (i know prelop really good on how much to raise and when...)
      the flop is harder for me..
      when to cbet
      when to fold..
      if to raise how much ? and WHY!!! ( i have to know why i need to do those stuff )
      i read alot the post flop article.. it still a blank for me...
    • justkyle88
      justkyle88
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      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 7,596
      have you watched some videos?
    • HappyUmbrella
      HappyUmbrella
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.07.2008 Posts: 11
      only the SSS videos...

      that was helpfull but still...
    • Vargan
      Vargan
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 565
      I have been playing since january. Ive read, reread, posted hands, played a load of hands, made huge mistakes and learned alot from them. And so on, and so on. Only now have I begun beating poker. (My ROI for july is around 40, a $300 increase to my BR.) Even so - there are things I dont know, things I need to ask about, and endless things to learn.

      The logic behind SSS is mathematical advantage, people will make mistakes against you. And playing strong hands really agressivly. Im pretty sure thats in the articles. So if you dont get SSS I suggest you try SNG's instead.


      Also Velak made some really good points in here and I also suggest you:
      "Reread the articles. learn them. Follow them closely, and stick to them."

      And THEN if you don't get it. Try reinventing the wheel or poker isnt for you.



      ps: Its ok to check your post for spelling. :rolleyes:
    • HappyUmbrella
      HappyUmbrella
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.07.2008 Posts: 11
      Originally posted by Vargan


      Also Velak made some really good points in here and I also suggest you:
      "Reread the articles. learn them. Follow them closely, and stick to them."

      And THEN if you don't get it. Try reinventing the wheel or poker isnt for you.



      ps: Its ok to check your post for spelling. :rolleyes:



      im not a good speller i know (feel free to fix me... maybe i will learn english as well :) )

      i will try that
      meen while im in this post i play sss on 2 tables..
      made another 10$ with it...
      the pocket aces that became a quad was helpfull :-)
      and the fact i didnt got any bad beats...

      lol
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Tomorrow night(saturday) there is a SSS coaching, you might be tempted to attend it ;)
    • NiekamNeidomu
      NiekamNeidomu
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.05.2007 Posts: 307
      to tell the truth.. SSS dont luvz me either ;d i remember i went broke xD while using it .. and every time i try to use it i end up with huge - anyways..
      despite that , i still think sss have big advantages, like easy brm and posability to climb up limits faster then playng big stack ;d
    • Vargan
      Vargan
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 565
      Originally posted by HappyUmbrella
      im not a good speller i know (feel free to fix me... maybe i will learn english as well :) )

      i will try that
      meen while im in this post i play sss on 2 tables..
      made another 10$ with it...
      the pocket aces that became a quad was helpfull :-)
      and the fact i didnt got any bad beats...

      lol

      I think you can spell better than you think you can.

      Sounds like you are understanding SSS if you are winning. Good job.

      Still reread, reread reread. ;)
    • HappyUmbrella
      HappyUmbrella
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.07.2008 Posts: 11
      as i said
      im working on that im sure its all about experience.....
    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      Now it is my turn.
      First I want to introduce myself. I am German and I play poker since I was on an exchange year in the US. Our playing style was 10/20 cent blinds. I made 800 dollars in that year, and I didn't have any theoretical knowledge. Most of the money I made from a guy that read and reread poker books all over and over again. I think he learned them by heart but he didn't understand a word they said. You might have experienced the same. You say you played live and won with "your style". You said you tried it online and you won 10$. There I have to say a few words.

      Online poker is much different from offline poker. Card-Reading is much more difficult online and you cannot confuse players by talking to them. Weak offline players make weird decisions on the pokertable when confused. Online that basically only works if they are on tilt. Playing your style offline might be fine and you might be a winning player there because you think about your opponents moves or you just ahve a psychological advantage. Online I have to disappoint you there. I therewith say the opposite of what was said before: do NOT try to play a loose/passive or loose/agressive style online, especially on the low limits. Your bluffs that work so nicely offline will be called down by a lowpair of threes or something like that. Your ten dollars you won are most defninitely due to luck, which you will not always have.

      If you choose SSS as your style to play online this is a good thing. If you want to understand the background it is even better. I played SSS in the beginning and lost. I stuck to the beginners articles, still lost. This was probably due to the fact that I myself didn't care about table selection too much, I just took what was there. And i had 8 bad beats right in the beginning, which is just off scale and made my bankroll look a bit small. I don't want to scare you away from SSS - it's way better than what I would have done otherwise. What I want to say is that if you want to play SSS you WILL actually have to understand it. And because you said you want to I will give you what I know to think to know to be right:

      The main advantage of SSS is, as you might know, the immensely tight play and the small stack you are playing with. I will try to show you why this play is a definite advantage against a marginal opponent in the microlimits and low lowlimits.

      The first one, which beginners underestimate, is the low variance SSS gives you. If you start with SSS on NL10 you start out with 25 buyins. If you would start with a bigstack you'd have five. No limit poker gives you badbeats - up to 15 in a row are not even unusual. If you start out with a few on your bigstack stragegy your money is gone, whereas in SSS you can play on and get it back. Always stick to the bankroll management - it's way more important than all the other stuff.

      The tight play ensures you to hold better hands than your opponents most of the time. The most important factor here is position. If you neglect position in the SHC you are already a losing player.
      Then there's this thing: you finally catch a good hand which you would raise and someone raises in front of you. You glance back to the SHC and it says "fold". Don't be tempted to call or reraise. Easy thinkings: if your opponent raises in front he's got a way smaller range of hands he could hold, of course better ones than usual. Lets say he would call with any face card, for simplicity ... now he's probably got something between AA-TT or AK-QJ. The probability that he's got the cards that you are holding beat (let's say AQ) increases ENORMOUSLY. Just wait for another hand instead of calling here.
      If you are holding better cards on the flop you of course win more often there. This is why you (on average) win a lot more pots you are playing.

      Now the advantage of the short stack (apart from bankroll management). On NL10 fullring tables there's 10 players. Some of them are shortstacks, some of them are middle-fullstacks. Let's say you(P1) are holding a very strong hand and one of the fullstacks(P2) raises and another one(p3) calls. Let's say it's a normal raise of 4 bb.
      Your advantage lies in the call of p3. I'll show you why:
      A fullstack can calls a lot more hands than a shorstack because he gets decent implied odds. It can for example be a good call for p3 here if he holds something like 77. He won't hit a seven on the flop alot (1/8th) but if he does he's got the possibility of getting p2's whole stack. This is an advantage that your shorstack does not have ... you cannot call 77 profitably on a 4BB raise because if you hit you will at most get another 16BB in ... your whole stack. So you pay 4 BB eight times (-4*8=-32) and win it once (+20). So you make minus 12/8 BB every time you are playing the hand which means you lose about 15 cent every time. p3 would have the -32 too but in an ideal case his one time he gets a whopping 100 BB from p2 which then amounts to 100-32=+68 BB. This gives him +68/8BB every hand which is about +8.5BB = +85 cents. The real amount of course is smaller than that since p2 won't go allin every time but this happens enough to make it profitable since he usually holds a strong hand that he won't give up easily.
      Now there's your advantage: p3 might have the pot odds of calling p2 here, but not you. Let's say you go into the 3-way pot with p1,p2 and p3. You have a strong hand, p2's got a strong hand that you usually have beat if you call and p3's got a speculative hand that he wins allin 1/8th of the time. Now p2 folds on the flop. What did p3 pay for now?
      He paid 4 BB 8 times (-32) and wins your whole stack plus the 4 BB of p1 every 8th time (he can't play low pockets if he doesn't hit ... you'll have him beat, usually) (+24). This gives him a -1 blind on every hand he plays like this.

      These -1 blinds he loses are your gain. This is not due to the fact that he misplaye his hand. This is due to your shorstack. 1 BB isn't much on it's own, but as you continue to play this advantage will pay off. You have this advantage not only on low pocket pairs but also on suited connectors like seven and eight of hearts. And you do not only have them preflop, but also in situations on the flop where you for example hit your King with AK and he has an open end straightdraw. He gets much value from a big stack if he hits, but he can't do this against you. This is in my opinion the main reason why SSS works - on mathematical basis.

      And I don't even play SSS :P

      If you have questions, ask again. I hope what I am saying here is correct. Everyone who spots mistakes please jump in and complain ... or if you have something to add, please do so.

      Now about you playing SSS... if you like playing looser I suggest you play SSS until you are silver and then start reading the BBS. BBS is much different to SSS and more fun in my opinion. The BBS has the advantage of winning bigger pots and the disadvantage of loosing bigger pots and thus increasing the variance ... a huge bankroll is necessary to play it (just for comparison... on the 4 cent limit you need 100$ to start - if you drop below you have to play SSS again). It is also much more difficult to play and can not only be read off a chart. SSS play goes to the flop... BBS goes to the river. Postflop play is avoided in SSS, mostly. In BBS it's much more important. Playing BBS takes more of your time and nearly 60% of your time goes into the theory instead of playing.
      If you want to avoid playing risky and too difficult or you want to try something in between there is low-limit SNGs. They have 3 huge SHCs and posflop theory to be read ... so it's something in between SSS and BSS as for the time you need for theory and interesting play that you can decide on your own.
      I think for you it would be best to continue playing SSS a bit until you have learned it and know why sticking to those guidelines is important and profitable. Don't play BSS before - there are SHCs in BSS too and if you think of changing a few things there you might be losing big time. After SSS i would suggest reading and playing SNGs.

      Whatever you do is your choice, of course. This just to give you an overview.
      Post again for questions.

      gen
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